How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:01 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
EnergyUnlimited wrote:
Shannymara wrote:
I have been unable to avoid industrializing my beautiful son, being myself wholly industrialized from birth, and living in a wholly industrialized nation.
Perhaps you wish to live until you see and experience the end of it (means end of industrial/cornucopian era but not an end of nation...).
That may be worth an effort.
Quote:
I am caring for a young child, goats, a guard dog, chickens, plants and trees, and several housepets, and all of them take more than they give emotionally (especially the child).
That is very good, kind of simple life. Most of peoples from your country cannot afford it. You should consider yourself very lucky in that context.
Quote:
It's hard to have much hope for the future in light of the geopolitical and economic circumstances.
Try to look on developing events from perspective of an observer.
I guess, you are debt free and reasonably well off and that put you well ahead of most of Americans.
You are in pretty good setting to become an observer. Unfolding show even if quite sad, can also be entertaining.
Quote:
I'm lonely, and the weight of this grief is almost unbearable at times. Please help me find the strength to carry on.
You are not lonely at all.
You have your child, goats, guard dog...
All of them love you and need you very much.
You can be tremendously lonely, regardless of how many people depend on you and love you. They may not understand you and not be sympatico in any way, which is a kind of frustrating estrangement that many people have to deal with. In light of the fact that Shanny is also dealing with deaths in her family, I find it strange that anyone would encourage her to keep her perspective by pointing out how lucky she is in other areas. Lonliness and grief are not the exclusive domain of those in complete financial deprivation. They are completely normal reactions to loss.
Joined: Jul 29, 2005 Posts: 251 Location: Show-Me State
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
Good day from Pheba, from the farm:
I can not imagine the depths of your pain. I also have suffered. Most of us have. Every person deals with grief in different ways. I had a hospice counselor after my Mother died.
I was her caregiver with cancer. I also dealt with alcoholic family members, a violent sadistic stepfather, etc. I developed a pretty bad case of post traumatic stress disorder. I was a mess. Then I developed cancer. (I am not considered a cure)
After Mom died I was so pissed off. My hospice counselor suggested I dig some holes. Sounds weird I know. But, I ordered 40 roses, and would not let my husband help me. I dug the holes by myself. My counselor was right. that did help.
After about 6 months my counselor had me start volunteer work at a local food bank. that was almost 8 years ago, and I am still doing volunteer work. Helped me a lot.
But, as I said above, we each have to deal with grief in our own way. I do agree with you on how peak oil is even more depressing when you have children. I have one grown daughter and 3 grandsons. I grieve for the future of my grandsons. but, I do not despair. My daughter is peak oil aware. She and the son in law, and my hubby and I work to help build independence and knowledge in the grandsons. This morning my daughter field dressed a deer and the meat will go in their freezer. That knowledge is being passed on. When I look back on how industrialized and materialistic my daughter used to be I am amazed.
Sounds to me like you are doing a fantastic job trying to instill the right mindset and knowledge in your son. Even if he sounds industrialized, you will be surprised at what else he carries with him. I am seeing this in my grandsons. they love spongebob, and Spiderman, but they are also absorbing skills and knowledge they need to survive an uncertain future.
Do not despair. Just do what you can, do it day to day, and lean on your friends.
I am an atheist, but oddly enough it is a Christian song that helped me through some of my darkest hours. I share the lyrics with you.
Press On
Billy Luz Sprague and Jim Weber
I was down in the valley of the shadow of death
Where the passion for life drained like blood from my chest
And it took more than my will just to take a step
When the compass of hope was gone.
In a silence so black that I wished for the blues
Every desparate prayer seemed like Heaven refused
And some days I found faith meant just tying my shoes
And it was all I could do to press on
Press on, mi ago
Press on, Mon ami
Walk on in the face of the mystery
Though the night hides the light
through the darkness till dawn
Tie your shoes, my dear friend... and press on.
On the ocean so lonesome I was not left alone
Had some heavyweight friends when my heart was a stone
And they carried the heartache and made it their own
When the currents of sorrow were strong
One said, " I pray your memories will not drag you down
Not be anchors but treasures of the love that you found"
And his kind words turned hurt into comfort somehow
And a wind in my sails to press on
Press on, mi amigo
Press on, Mon ami
Walk on in the face of the mystery
Though the night hides the light
and the journey is long
lean on me, my dear friend... and press on.
Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5032 Location: Oklahoma
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
Thanks everybody, including those who have sent private messages. I should probably clarify that I'm not despairing right now, I'm pretty sure this is just healthy and normal (under the circumstances) grief. It just sucks and I feel like I need more support than I'm able to get at home, which I why I decided to write about it here.
Threadbear, don't worry, I took EU's post well. We have corresponded before and I know his intentions are kind. The intentions behind all these posts are more important to me right now than the details, for the most part. And I'd love to hear more of your experiences if you feel like sharing. I actually pray quite a lot, in my own way.
Pheba, congrats on being cancer free - that's wonderful. _________________ "Every junkie's like a setting sun..." - Neil Young
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1715 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 3:34 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
I split with my ex six months ago....couldn't reconcile what I knew about this world with the denial our marriage had become, and I tend to be a loner in this otherwise crazy cornucopia I am surrounded by.
Life is what it is...you do what you have to to stay ahead of the play and you take your knocks.....at the end of the day, you're on your own and if you can come to learn to enjoy your own company, mate, learn to enjoy that space you call YOU despite the ups and downs, everything else is easy. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3832 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 4:14 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
Quote:
I am caring for a young child, goats, a guard dog, chickens, plants and trees, and several housepets, and all of them take more than they give emotionally (especially the child). Yet all of them are necessary.
Be thankfull they need you! It's about giving. Someday you will look back and say to yourself, I'm a happier person now.
It's like trying to find that door, but you just can't seem to find it, as hard as you try. Then all of a sudden you realize you already went thru it and life is better.
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
Shannymara,
Love and best wishes from across the sea. It's nice to see that you know you can turn to our online community for solace.
There is an old irish saying.
"Conversation is the cure of every sorrow. Even contention is better than loneliness."
I hope everything works out for you. If good will has anything to do with it then judging by all the support here, you are sorted. _________________ www.askaboutenergy.com
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
Also, if you're under a lot of stress you're body may be depleted of various nutrientss. Omega-3s, b-vitamins, etc.
So you have external events that make you feel depressed. This, of course, is normal. But then any deficiencies that arise from the stress of dealing with the events make the grief, lethargy, etc only worse.
I consider lack of exercise, particularly walking, to be a deficiency as well. If you've got highly stressful events to deal with it's easy to let walking outdoors and other such activities fall by the wayside.
Addressing any deficiencies may enable you to bring the grief down from, for instance, a "10" on a scale of 1-to-10 to a 6.5 in which case it will at least be more manageable.
Of course, if you go to a western doc he'll probably just want to turn you into a walking experiment for Big Pharma. In that case, you're better off sticking with the old standbys of hard drinking and promiscuous sex.
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
Aaron wrote:
Another thing I discovered, is that if I pretend I'm something long enough... I eventually forget I'm pretending .
Same here. But now I have a problem in that I can't figure out for sure if I'm an Icelandic Viking named "Celic the Rodhard" looting and pillaging his way through Europe or an African tribesman named "ManDangAlo" hunting big game though the Africa savannahs. _________________ http://www.peakoil.org
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1106 Location: Everywhere
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 5:59 pm Post subject: Re: Grief
Shannymara wrote:
In the past 14 months I have lost my father, my sister, my love, my baby, and all hope for my marriage. The planet is sick, maybe dying. My youth is fading. I have been unable to avoid industrializing my beautiful son, being myself wholly industrialized from birth, and living in a wholly industrialized nation. I am feeling intense grief over all these losses. I live in a place where it's very difficult to find people I can connect with, and circumstances, particularly my expectations about future events outside my control, preclude moving. My mother is here, but due to past family events I am unable to lean on her for certain kinds of support. I am caring for a young child, goats, a guard dog, chickens, plants and trees, and several housepets, and all of them take more than they give emotionally (especially the child). Yet all of them are necessary. It's hard to have much hope for the future in light of the geopolitical and economic circumstances. I'm lonely, and the weight of this grief is almost unbearable at times. Please help me find the strength to carry on.
PS - Anti-self-pity parables about men with no feet, and tough love tactics, are not necessary. I'm quite capable of that approach on my own, thanks.
Ouch. I've sort-of been through things like this myself - the 'cry for help' is a positive move but when it happens it's often too late (slump).
You may be suffering from either Stress or Depression (understandable, given the situation you've described). In either case you should consider (sorry) consulting a Doctor. They are better qualified to decide if you need assistance than you are (and the same goes for most of us here, I hate to say).
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And I'd love to hear more of your experiences if you feel like sharing. I actually pray quite a lot, in my own way.
