Some observations about the PO dilemna.

Abacourix · Coal Joined: Feb 24, 2005 Posts: 8

I really, truly believe there is no way out. No matter how experienced a woodsman or farmer you are; there is NO amount of preparation that can possibly prepare oneself for the full range of consequences of peak oil.

Several years ago, I went into a severe psychotic shock after having learned about peak oil. I went CRAZY with it.

I decided to go the furthest possible means with my PO preparation - namely, learning how to thrive as a hunter-gatherer. I didn't like the idea of being a gardner or farmer, because that required a permanent residence (which can be attacked and stolen and taken over) farming requires climatic stability - and in the age of climatic change, this doesn't look very positive!

I have learned many good things. I am very adept at trapping deer; pounding cattail rhizomes for flour, making fire from a bow-drill and all sorts of wonderful skills associated with living without any reliance on modern technology whatsoever. I chose this route because I wanted to be prepared for the worst possible scenario that I could.

But alas, several years later, I still don't feel as though I am safe, at all. The more I think about it, the more I recognize that there are so many dangers completely outside of the range of an individual human being's influence. This includes widespread diseases and biological warfare; being in the wrong place at the wrong time (and other accidents), nuclear warheads, ecosystems being depleted by OTHER people wanting to survive.

I think I am going to die soon, no matter what.

Ludi

Yeah well, I figure I'll die when times get tough, but that doesn't mean I'm giving up on today or tomorrow.

You just don't know. And if you went nuts before, how do you know you're thinking rationally now?

BTW, have you gotten medical help for the psychosis? I recommend it, personally.

My sis went nuts after learning about peak oil, was hospitalized, and has been recovering ever since (it's been about three years now, I think).

I think peak oil may be a serious trigger for some people who are prone to mental illness.
_________________
"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy

americandream

Ludi

Tyler_JC

KillTheHumans

timbo

Worry about what you can't change, I do. But then having prepared as best you can enjoy life until that great big flash in the sky at which point in time, as the most sage advice I've heard goes, "Stick your head between your legs and kiss your ass goobye"

PrairieMule

cestlavie · Tar Sands Joined: Feb 12, 2007 Posts: 79

Hey Abacourix,

I took Tom Brown Jrs Standard class around 1999. I do standard farming now, so I have a food supply of potatoes to last hopefully through the winter however if raiders came my instinct would make me hit the woods. The pull of the wilderness is too strong, the words of Tom Brown resonate too deeply. "Only the children of the earth shall survive." Go seek the wild places and do not return back - curiousity could kill many. For now I am farming and learning about wild plants, and planting perennials, learning how things grow. If you are too worried about nuclear fallout to enjoy the beauties of nature then stay home. You can keep a huge pile of sand outside your home, then after the flash occurs shovel the sand over your floor and hide in the basement. When the ash falls, this will help stop the radiation from penetrating. However, life is short. Remember, if you can learn tracking and be a scout, you can be immersed in the beauty and simplicity of nature while the world will all fall down. True, life isn't perfect and things will happen to make it end but just remember, its the game that counts! Not the sum tally, but the actual game! Enjoy life, gain skills, and see what happens! Now if I could only learn to live and love and learn from my own advice.... I do my best, its just so difficult seeing idiots going about and life as usual and no interest in tomorrow and live for today etc etc you know what I mean... <grin!>

Mechman

Hello Abacourix,

What I have below might be of help.

>I really, truly believe there is no way out. No matter how experienced a woodsman or farmer you are; there is NO amount of preparation that can possibly prepare oneself for the full range of consequences of peak oil.

Very true, none of us will get out of life alive. However there are many ways to go, generally good and bad: as in long happy life and die peacefully in your sleep vs. fear, pain, suffering, torture, rape and a nasty death.

>I decided to go the furthest possible means with my PO preparation - namely, learning how to thrive as a hunter-gatherer. I didn't like the idea of being a gardener or farmer, because that required a permanent residence (which can be attacked and stolen and taken over) farming requires climatic stability - and in the age of climatic change, this doesn't look very positive!

Well done, you are better off than most people! Back in the 1980’s I was almost sure the Russians were going to nuke us and the best thing left to eat would be a two headed squirrel if I survived the attack and any squirrels survived. I really expected to die if that happened in the 1980’s because there was nothing I could do about it at that time. There were some close calls with the Russians but there was not WW III. Y2K was a small risk (10% chance of big problems, 10% chance of medium problems, 10% chance of small problems, and 70% chance of nothing at all) but I really did not expect much to happen. I was prepared for all but the 10% big problems and just did not have the resources to do any better.

Peak Oil is different than the WW III nuking in the 1980’s and Y2K risk, it will happen and soon and it will kick all of our asses in one way or another. The world that we have grown up in must stop and change. We have all grown up in a energy “Summer” we are now in a energy “Fall” and a harsh “Winter” is coming. None of us will live long enough to see another energy “Summer” but some of us will live to see a new energy “Spring”. Part of this change is risk management and part of the change is getting ready to be happy or sad with less. Since you have practiced and are prepared to be happy with less, the changes that are coming will not hurt you or hurt you as much. I am still getting prepared but I believe this change is necessary and good to get people and culture responsible again. The energy party was fun and the clean up is going suck for most but you will probably be OK.

>But alas, several years later, I still don't feel as though I am safe, at all. The more I think about it, the more I recognize that there are so many dangers completely outside of the range of an individual human being's influence. This includes widespread diseases and biological warfare; being in the wrong place at the wrong time (and other accidents), nuclear warheads, ecosystems being depleted by OTHER people wanting to survive.

The first step in avoiding a trap is to know of its existence and then plan to not get caught in the trap. You might not feel safe but you actually are much safer than most. Even chance favors the prepared mind, just like you. By knowing that there are diseases and possible biological warfare you can do something about it. Most of these things would burn out in months in your area. As long as you are not a wage slave like me paying off debt, you can sit back avoid others and pop out when things are better. I will be a slave for a about four more years and then I too can watch the world spin from a distance. I cannot save everyone but I would be able to save myself and some of those around me. Even big strong bears hibernate for the bad times of winter. Even if you are big bear strong and tuff, just chill out away from others and you will be OK. Nukes are very nasty and very destructive with both sever short term and long term effects. Stay away from down towns of big cities and have a way to get out of the down wind without being in the mass of refugees and you will be OK. Ecosystems damage will happen slowly and you can move around. There is some great wisdom in staying at least 50 feet above sea level. If a sever drought hits one year, you should already have some supplies to make it to another year or have the ability to go to another area that is not screwed up. If holding up in one location is not good, just travel by RV on land and sailboat on water. Remember, the principle of limited entropy in the world will generally protect you: Things can only get screwed up so much at any one time so go to the areas that are not so screwed up.

>I think I am going to die soon, no matter what.

Possible for anyone but not very likely. It is best not to dwell on creepy thoughts even if they can happen. There is no good reason to dwell on low probability issues. Wasteful of your limited resources. Focus on what you can do, not what you can’t do. You have worked hard and you knowledge and training will make a difference by giving you options that most don’t have. You cannot stop death, none of us are immortal, but you can put it off for a very long time if you are not very old and you want to live.

If you want some inspiration from great people who should so well in PO times without having to read lots of books check out:

Peak oil: A primer on remaining human
http://hydrocarbonman.com/index.html

Druid perspectives on nature, culture, and the future of industrial society
http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/

And last but not least, Jesus Christ really does love you. I am not talking about Chuchianity or man’s interpretation of spiritually mixed with local culture often called religion. I am talking about pulling out your Bible and letting it talk to you. It will if you want it too.

You might have something like:

http://hydrocarbonman.com/blogs/peak_pessimism.htm

“One night the pressure got to me. I went outside to finally have it out with God. The sky was filled with stars - an unusual sight in the city - so I figured someone must be home up there. If you've seen the movie Forrest Gump - in which Lieutenant Dan, who lost both legs in Vietnam, lashes himself to the mast of a shrimp boat during a hurricane and screams at God, "Is that all you've got?" - then you know the mood I was in. I don't think I actually said, "Damn you!" but I came close. I went out to nail my list of grievances to the door of the universe: no job, no money for diapers, no retirement, no security for my kids.
Then something happened that probably happens more often than we know when people are under such stress: the sky spoke back. What I "heard" in response to my tirade astonished me, shut me up, and set the course of my life for the next 15 years (and still going). Now I'll share it with you:
The Voice calmly said, "If you believe that the future is just more of the same, a long highway climbing, uninterrupted, all the way to the horizon, then you are right; you'd better have a good job, health insurance, a 401k plan, and a college fund for the kids. You'd better know how to navigate corporate politics, the stock market, and the shark-infested waters of the IRS.
"But if you consider for a moment that the future is not more of the same, but is radically different from anything you've ever known, then you are going to need different tools and different skills to meet it. You might need to know how to live on much less, grow your own food, and overcome a hundred crippling consumerist addictions. You might need to learn a whole new way of thinking. The trouble you're in is not a bad place to start."
That was it. No thunder, no lightning. Just a little something for me to think about. I've been thinking about it ever since. I started looking at the world without my "the-future-is-today-only-moreso" bias and quickly realized the storm clouds were already gathering on the horizon, for all to see: peak oil, climate change, water shortage, terrifying vulnerability to technology, industrial agriculture, and a dizzying host of toxic waste products in our water and food supply. And that was just the short list. Our way of life was obviously not sustainable. Why hadn't I seen it sooner?”

Take care like you have been doing!
_________________
Mark

Been getting out of the "Beast" for 3 years and counting. Get a helmet as quick as you can.

syrac818 · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 01, 2005 Posts: 113

Excellent post Mechman. Well done from start to finish.

I think the prospect of PO presents a very dangerous scenario for those whol have some issues with mental illness. I know, like so mnay others on here, because I have had soome slight issues myself. Basically, we're seeing a lot of jumping from Point A to Point Z on here, with total disregard for all that lies in between. The threat of peak oil is real - much of the reaction to is not. To constantly fear the future is to invite pain, and as humans we can't do that if we want to move forward and achieve in life.

The world changes constantly. Our entire being on here is fluid - it moves as the universe continues to unfold. If one is to remain petrified in fear of what is ahead, they cannot and will not adapt accordingly.

savethehumans · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Oct 20, 2004 Posts: 1541

Thank you, Mechman. You really kind of helped.

Whether struggling with mental illness, or being reasonably "sane" (whatever THAT means!), knowing of P.O./GW/env destruct/overpopulation/ad nauseam can really threaten ANYONE'S sanity!

Abacourix' despair is shared, to some extent, by all of us "aware" sorts. Aba, I'd tend to agree with what was said above: many, if not most, of us aren't going to be around 10, 20 years down the road. (Heck, at this point, if it's 2012 and I'm still around, no one will be more shocked than me!) It's the choices about how you're going to let your life be until then that matter. "Quality" doesn't just mean material comfort; it gets into self-respect and a sense of your time here having been worthwhile to others--that includes nature and life in it as well as humans (who have done their darnest to live apart from nature--and you see how THAT worked out). Make it count, however long or short a time you've got left.

Thanks again, Mechman!

Dan_Browne · Coal Joined: Feb 08, 2008 Posts: 16

I agree.
There is no amount of preparation you can possibly do.
No matter which way you slice it, some asshole is going to try to take your crap. Whether it's the zombies or the government.

So I conclude that I cannot survive without the system.
I have stopped beating myself up about it which helps a little.

I can't get over the gut wrenching fear I have at times but I think I need to look outside the small picture (myself and my children).

Say we get to the scenario where the zombie hordes come and kill you and your family to take your stuff.

As hard as it is to swallow I think some of us are genetically programmed to hoard because it's good for the group though not necessarily for us.

In other words, all the hoarders will cause *some* of the human race to survive even if it turns out to be proto-warlords.

In a self-sacrificing (though unwilling) way we are helping out humanity with a way for some of us to survive even if we don't survive ourselves.

I can (partially) live with that though I plan to fight to my last breath.

Some asshole tries to take my crap I will be dispatching the zombie mofo to zombie hell with an axe from home depot until the rest get me.

PhebaAndThePilgrim

Good day from Pheba, from the farm:
I am a cancer survivor. I am also in remission with lupus/RA. I also have post traumatic stress disorder from being my Mother's caregiver with terminal cancer for 17 months.
yes, I have been in therapy for the PTSD for 5 years. There was a time when I knew I was going to die soon. I dealt with it by telling myself: "Okay, I'm going to die, but I am not going to die today. Clean the house, run your errands, fix supper." This was my mantra, and there are days when I still need it to get motivated.
Perhaps a day will dawn when I say that and it doesn't work. I have had near misses on the interstate, and well, as Forrest Gump said: "it happens".
I have been able to cope and go on, even with everything that has happened. One of the major signs of PTSD is the feeling that your own death is coming. I just knew that after Mom died I would follow her to the grave within 6 months.
Life had other plans for me. I am an atheist, so I don't have any religion to fall back on. I do ,however, embrace the mystery of life. I don't know everything. And that's okay with me.
There are times when I look hard at peak oil, global climate change, the subprime meltdown mess, and I fear for the future. I fear for the future of my daughter and grandsons.
Then I ask myself what I can do to fix it. The answer is absolutely nothing. It is out of my hands.
My daughter was recently diagnosed with the same disease cluster I have. Only she has 1 additional disease that is an ass kicker. Such news motivates me to help her, and seek solutions for things that I can help to "fix", or at least make better.
I was on my own by the time I was 17. I came out of a bad violent childhood. I had my own job and apartment and car at age 18. I have always been self reliant. I remember I used to have a poster in my bathroom next to the mirror. I looked at it every morning as I prepared for work. The poster was a little girl kicking at waves on the edge of the seashore. The title was: "The Miracle of Now".
I wish I still had that poster. I could sure use it.
Pheba.

KillTheHumans