How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6368 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:45 am Post subject: Project Stealth PO House
I mentioned somewhere that our Daughter and family are buying 10ac of our little farm.
Of course they want Pops to design and build them a house. Now understand they are well aware of all the time I spend tapping away around here, but like most folks in their late 20’s are not ready to buy into all this doomer crap, live in a mud hut, stack of firewood or hay.
But they do trust me to build them a comfortable, efficient house (he he he).
They have only a few criteria; it needs room for a pool table, must have a pretty stairway and needs to look old – specifically like this.
I thought it would be interesting to document the process of designing and building a conventional but efficient, sturdy, and hopefully somewhat independent house for folks who are not into all this PO, climate change and Green stuff
Skyemoor has agreed to help out and I hope everyone will chime in with suggestions and criticisms.
In first looking at that house I noticed the high ceiling on the front porch and the long rectangular footprint. Since the natural position of the house on the land places that long porch facing south and the high roof on the first floor porch will allow pretty good penetration of sunlight into the house I was encouraged. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Last edited by Pops on Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Pops,
Recently my wife and I have decided to sell our place and buy a lot across the road from us and build a house ourselves. It is a five acre lot and backs up to a 15,000 acre ranch. I have knowledge that the ranch owner has no intentions of developing the land so it should be secure for sometime. The five acres is selling for 5k an acre. When I bought our place across the road 8 years ago it was selling for 1k an acre. Our place has appraised for 126k which we have about 46k in equity. I hope!
My plan is to secure the land, build a small one bedroom guest house to live in temporarily (we will be crowded 4 people) then sell our place put the equity in the bank for materials to build our new house. This will effectively be cutting our mortgage in half.
Now I know the caveats of doing this as I have helped my neighbors build three houses one of which is nearing 80% complete. Luckily my neighbor who I have been helping is the local Sutherlands manager. He has agreed to let me buy materials when they have their 15-20% off sales, and store the materials in the warehouse and deliver them as I need them. Oh and the neighbors are willing to return the favor of help.
The plan is to make the house as energy efficient as possible 2x6 walls R 19 insulation, Lowe E windows, tech shield roof decking, a century drain metal roof with water collection system, 24 inches of blown insulation in the roof etc.
On the subject of the new well and alternative energy should I go with a grid tie well, solar well, windmill, or combination of two? I may have the oppurtunity to go solar and wind. It's expensive but is there anything I could do to prewire the house for later installations to save money?
The beauty of this move will be I am able to move a lot of my preps across the road, the garden however will need to be started from scratch but the soil is better on the property across the road and I got lots of seeds.
And for Roccman I will be putting in a concrete basement 8x16.
I need two more years! Crosses fingers!
If everything goes to crap we will be moving in with Pops I mean my Pop who owns 10 acres of waterfront. _________________ It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6368 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
billp wrote:
Maybe what is needed in housing design is a way to shut off rooms during the heating season?
Check! I’ll upload the prelim floorplans later today but I’m with you!
UncoveringTruths wrote:
On the subject of the new well and alternative energy should I go with a grid tie well, solar well, windmill, or combination of two? I may have the oppurtunity to go solar and wind. It's expensive but is there anything I could do to prewire the house for later installations to save money?
Sounds like a great plan UT, as far as the wiring goes, I think there is a thread somewhere that says conversion to AC is the best as you get much more voltage drop using DC - but hopefully someone with more than a guess will chime in here.
As for the well, I’m thinking you need to consider water table depth, solar/wind potential vs your local electricity rate and more importantly the primary fuel for generating (coal, gas, nuke, etc) and projected population growth within your utilities area. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Pops wrote:
As for the well, I’m thinking you need to consider water table depth, solar/wind potential vs your local electricity rate and more importantly the primary fuel for generating (coal, gas, nuke, etc) and projected population growth within your utilities area.
Water table is good at 380 ft. Wind is excellent there is a water windmill on the adjacent Ranch and several within the area. Solar is excellent, west of the winter garden area in Texas. I am concerned about the Coal fired plants being cancelled recently though. Growth has been out of site from relocating Californians however in our area I believe we have reached the limits for a while.
My well driller is really good but has a drinking problem and is slow as molasses. But I trust him compared to the other fast and furious drillers who tend to drill wells that bend or skew because they are in a hurry. _________________ It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2662 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
From a doomer point of view -
The issue with that pictured house and pretty much all houses is it's coated with easy to break through windows. The pictured one has shutters so Make sure they are functional and not decorative screwed to the wall like so many are around here. Also Have them built by a storm shutter company so they are a good strong metal design.
It also looks like the the front porch is trivial to get under. Thats a bad idea when it comes to fire protection.
I don't know if you guys do basements but I'd add one and prebuild parts of it to be a fallout shelter. Just pick a corner and stengthen it during the construction. Pour two internal walls and put a strong door on it. Then go radiant floor heating on the first floor and pour a good thick spot for a roof to the shelter. It's easy to do during construction and won't cost much more.
The roof should be some form of metal or slate depending on budget. Either should outlast you and may outlast your kids.
When doing the plumbing all gray water should be run in a way that it can easily be diverted out of the System and used for watering purposes if need be. In my case this means every drain runs back to one line before going into the main stack with the black water. Should the day come It will be easy to cut the gray water line and divert it to the front gardens. The necessary parts are stored and waiting.
If they get solar exposure they should definitely have solar hot water assisting whatever heating source they choose.
Electical should be set up with a transfer switch/lockout from day one. When/If they decide to add a backup generator it will be a simple plug it in and flip the switch procedure.
Seriously consider going off grid entirely from day one. if you need to put in power poles you can very quickly get to the point where a solar/wind setup costs exactly the same.
Every house should have at least one wood burning heat source.
There is no such thing as a big enough pantry _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
strider3700 wrote:
From a doomer point of view -
I don't know if you guys do basements but I'd add one and prebuild parts of it to be a fallout shelter. Just pick a corner and stengthen it during the construction. Pour two internal walls and put a strong door on it. Then go radiant floor heating on the first floor and pour a good thick spot for a roof to the shelter. It's easy to do during construction and won't cost much more.
The roof should be some form of metal or slate depending on budget. Either should outlast you and may outlast your kids.
When doing the plumbing all gray water should be run in a way that it can easily be diverted out of the System and used for watering purposes if need be. In my case this means every drain runs back to one line before going into the main stack with the black water. Should the day come It will be easy to cut the gray water line and divert it to the front gardens. The necessary parts are stored and waiting.
If they get solar exposure they should definitely have solar hot water assisting whatever heating source they choose.
Electical should be set up with a transfer switch/lockout from day one. When/If they decide to add a backup generator it will be a simple plug it in and flip the switch procedure.
Seriously consider going off grid entirely from day one. if you need to put in power poles you can very quickly get to the point where a solar/wind setup costs exactly the same.
Every house should have at least one wood burning heat source.
There is no such thing as a big enough pantry
Yes a definite must on reinforced basement.
LifeTite Century drain metal roof I hate shingles!
Grey water option is a good idea although it would have to wait until the SHTF as it has been currently made unlawful locally to utilize.
I am definitely interested in installing solar water heating I will look into it further.
Got generator covered but will only last as long as gas supplies good for emergencies but won't last in extended situations.
I am within 300 feet of the existing grid so costs would be minimal for a grid set-up. However I would like to have some critical needs met by Solar/Wind. _________________ It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Pops wrote:
Skyemoor has agreed to help out and I hope everyone will chime in with suggestions and criticisms.
Where do you live? Location has a lot to do with what will make your home most efficient. The two obvious and independent requirements are limiting the size and buying the most efficient windows and insulation that money can buy.
Two story homes are traditionally more energy intensive because they have a larger surface area to volume ratio. Therefore, more heat transfer into or out of the building. Geography will determine which walls need more or less windows because you want good air flow in the summer, but you don't want to lose a lot of heat in the winter. Skylights will also save money but if you build a 2 story house it won't do you much good on the first or primary floor.
In addition to solar and wind, I would look into getting a heat pump and a tankless water heater installed.
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3251 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
HHmm.. Well hidden under some external structure;
-secret stairwell from top to the bottom;
-WWwaaayyy back when, the shutters for houses were within the inside walls (like pocket doors). That way, they kept things out and didn't blow off, nor were they easy to rip off.
-several fireplaces, including a cooking one for the kitchen.
-retractible(sp?) wind turbine that could be raised when needed or pulled down incase of wind or other problem.
-more substantial wall than those spindly porch railings. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Ferretlover wrote:
HHmm.. Well hidden under some external structure;
-secret stairwell from top to the bottom;
-WWwaaayyy back when, the shutters for houses were within the inside walls (like pocket doors). That way, they kept things out and didn't blow off, nor were they easy to rip off.
-several fireplaces, including a cooking one for the kitchen.
-retractible(sp?) wind turbine that could be raised when needed or pulled down incase of wind or other problem.
-more substantial wall than those spindly porch railings.
Reminds me of those shutters in the Outlaw Josey Wales movie that closed from the inside and had shooting lanes cut in them like this +. With today's high powered rifles you would need heavy duty steel for them to be effective defensively. The wife would think I flipped my lid if I installed interior steel shutters. I can get away with the basement because of tornadic activity in the area. _________________ It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
UncoveringTruths wrote:
Reminds me of those shutters in the Outlaw Josey Wales movie......
Ok, one of us needs to change their avatar. I have only had this one for about 3 days now, you? _________________ Those that cannot do..... teach. Those that cannot teach......teach gym.-Jack black
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
jbeckton wrote:
UncoveringTruths wrote:
Reminds me of those shutters in the Outlaw Josey Wales movie......
Ok, one of us needs to change their avatar. I have only had this one for about 3 days now, you?
I was wondering when you would see it. It's a joke! I flipped your avatar in Photoshop for the effect of a mirror. _________________ It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
Joined: Feb 01, 2006 Posts: 474 Location: Northern US
Posted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Think about putting in a small false wall (maybe in a closet or cupboard). Could come in handy for storing a few items. (wink)
Lots of ball-type valves, one on each water run. Makes it nice to be able to take things off-line from the basement. Those tiny shutoffs never work when you need them.
Oversize the electrical panel, you can never have too many breaker spaces.
Phone is easier with a terminal block, no splices, add phones when and where needed.
Installing security system and/or house monitoring devices? _________________ "...the problem is today we have unknown unknowns."
Dominique Strauss-Kahn; IMF chief
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He has agreed to let me buy materials when they have their 15-20% off sales, and store the materials in the warehouse and deliver them as I need them. Oh and the neighbors are willing to return the favor of help.
I flipped your avatar in Photoshop for the effect of a mirror.
