Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1371 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Pops wrote:
Vertical collectorI’m assuming that the smaller size vertical collector would be more efficient (as long as it is built right) than my porch collector idea.
Much more efficient, as you are looking at R-4 with dual pane instead of R-0.17 (still air over a surface). Let's do another rough estimate;
Heat Gain
Using a relatively local manufacturer's data, and given 6 3' x 3' panels with no shading, the vertical solar input is approximately 3.7 kWh/m^2/day, which provides;
Assuming the output temperature of the water is is the same to make the comparison valid, 71 F, and the fins of the collector elements are roughly 75 F, an average collector temperature would be 73 F. For a 1 degree F day;
q = ( TH - TC )/ R
where q is the heat transfer rate in units of BTU/ft2hr (or kW/m2 ), T is temperature and the subscripts H and C denote hot and cold, and R is thermal resistance.
q = (73 - 1)/4 = 18 BTUs/ft^2 hr
The solar collector will be operative probably 6 hours per day;
18 * 54 *6 hours/day = 5832 BTUs/day
Total gain on 1 degree day= 51160 - 5832 = 45328 BTUs/day (rough estimate)
Total gain on 31 degree day= 51160 - 3402= 47758 BTUs/day (rough estimate)
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
I like this more, especially because of performance in the colder and warmer periods, possibility of siphoning at first or way later and the problem of a too hot porch.
Thanks for bringing the idea up and providing the calcs.
I’ll attempt to make a representation on the Client’s photo-example for approval. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
I’m gonna review now, here is where I sit:
1/2 walk out basement approximately 3’-4’ below existing grade depending on site conditions, balance of foundation crawlspace. All basement and crawlspace walls to be ICF’s over an appropriately sized footing, water and critter proofing, permeable backfill, filter fabric and drains to air and insulation under the basement floor slab. Piers and footings 2’ below existing grade to support porch columns and footings to support vertical solar collectors at the south side of the south porch. Walk out to be facing NE (towards Pop’s house - so I can get to the beer tap easy)
Cement board lap-type siding, vapor permeable barrier, 5/8” 5-ply plywood sheathing, 2x6 at 24” OC studs, sprayed foam or fiberglass batt insulation, 6 mill. vapor barrier and 5/8 type X drywall.
Solar collectors placed vertically and south facing at the base of the porch deck feeding a heat storage tank placed above the highest elevation of the collectors. Radiant infloor heat embedded in lightweight concrete on the entire first floor and tiled areas of the second, with pre-heat from the heat storage tank or propane fired on-demand back-up. An insert fireplace with SS flue in the LR west wall and at least provision for another flue (or two) in an exterior chase in the east wall.
My brian and fingers are tired but feedback is needed… _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3428 Location: California, USA
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 8:00 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Skyemoor, ten points for doing all that math...
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Re. heating/cooling ductwork buried underground to take advantage of ambient soil temperature: Caution! May produce serious mold problems and spread the stuff in the air, which could lead to major health consequences! Better to use a liquid transfer medium such as water running in buried pipes, and then keep all the airflow within the building envelope and above-ground outside air.
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FPG:
I did a little research on ICFs. 2-1/2 hour fire rating. Insulation + thermal mass reduce heating/cooling costs by 50-75% compared to wood frame construction. Minimizes sound transmission, excellent acoustical privacy in both directions. And 7 times the earthquake resistance of wood frame construction. I'm sold on the system, and will be looking into ARXX. The 1% to 5% increase in cost of construction per square foot can be offset by an equivalent downsize in the building (easily accomplished) or by saving on labor due to community crew.
Now I have to find out what to do about window inserts. Presumably the insert is left out until the concrete is level with the bottom, and then the insert is put in place (one can't count on concrete to flow properly into the space below the window; attempts to get concrete to flow horizontally in forms are a classic cause of weak concrete placements (honeycomb, rock pockets, areas that don't fill), only recently rectified via high-range water reducing admixtures, but I'd just as soon use the HRWRs plus proper oldschool placing techniques, for the sake of redundancy.
Re. our "newfangled barn raising methods." Actually all of it comes from oldschool concrete practices before readymix and pumping became ubiquitous. As follows....
You have a 3-1/2-S mixer on site (Stone 75CM, and beware there are literally counterfeits of Stone brand mixers around, made in China, typically selling for half the price of the real one). You use "pony sacks" of cement (45-lb. sacks, equivalent to 1/2 of a regular 90# sack) so as to avoid having to weigh the cement (which can be annoying due to its flow characteristics and due to losses when there is a breeze): one pony sack to a batch in that size mixer. You weigh-batch the sand & coarse aggregates using 5-gallon plastic pails and platform scales. You measure water volumetrically in a calibrated pail. And you mix for 2 minutes, the second minute producing an additional 10% of final strength that shouldn't be neglected.
One batch in the mixer = two wheelbarrow loads of concrete (1-3/4 cubic feet or about 262 lbs. per barrow load which is about the most a person can reasonably handle without excessive fatigue). The barrows are hoised to the top of the scaffold with a winch or contracor's derrick that can be mounted on the scaffold. The concrete is deposited into the forms via tremies or "elephant trunks" (Gar-Bro makes these, also makes 2-wheeled concrete buggies that would be used for placing slab work and basement walls).
Three people batching & mixing, two wheeling, one hoisting, two placing via the tremies. Total crew of 8, and should be able to place an entire poured basement in a day (no hoisting there), or an entire 640 square foot house in a day (assuming the house consists of 12' walls, whereby you have a main floor with 8-foot ceiling, and an attic with 4-foot knee walls to provide extra height for emergency sleeping quarters or for expanded storage). This is not too different from the standard setup for pouring house foundations in the 1920s through 1950s.
Interesting that you have two people on vibration. I would have thought one would be sufficient. How are you handling the vibration that requires two people, or do you have one actually vibrating the concrete and one moving the vibrator motor along as the work proceeds?
Question: Is there a rough rule for the amount of time it takes for a crew of X size to stack Y linear feet of wall to Z height? And another rule for time factor for a window and for a door? This would be for stacking block & setting rebar, so the project is ready to pour.
Does ARXX make cutouts for doors and windows in standard sizes? How'bout something that produces a result whereby one can just insert a regular door frame and door assembly?, and same question for standard window assemblies of various sizes?
I don't know if I asked this before, but what about basement walls? For example assume I have a nice foundation pit that's ready for walls to go up, and normally I would start erecting the usual two sets of forms to pour the walls. Can I just use the ICFs, build the basement walls in the same manner as the 1st floor walls, and then backfill against the ICFs after the concrete has cured? What treatment do I need on the exterior of the ICF wall to prevent moisture or water from leaking through, or should I just use impervious concrete and that's sufficient (well-graded aggs, minimal water, a little extra cement, increase the mixing time to 3 minutes and use proper vibration on placement; ordiarily one would moist-cure but the ICFs take care of that issue by preventing "drying" of the concrete).
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Interior sheetrock:
Sheetrock is IMHO a "necessary" evil, an expedient material in the worst sort of way. Crumbly plaster sandwiched between two layers of cardboard. Sheesh. Worst of both worlds.
I have to believe that building codes also allow some kind of wood paneling such as tongue-and-groove plank walls, and if not, they can go get stuffed.
And I have to believe the building codes still allow for real plaster, the kind that's mixed on site and applied with a hawk & trowel, which can be used (if one has the skill) to make radiused corners at the ceilings and other subtle architectural features that say "quality work" but are the opposite of ostentatious.
Having tried my hand at plaster and also at stucco, the former is rather more difficult to work with than the latter, by way of being more "sticky" and "adhesive," and less forgiving at getting a good surface.
Stucco can be used as an interior finish, and one can choose one's cement and sand to get various subtle shades of color (white cement plus various color-graded sand), some of which can transform even the worst lighting into a warm cozy color spectrum without harsh shadows.
My first preference is plaster, followed equally by plank paneling and stucco. Sheetrock comes third. As for mounting stuff on the wall, one can & should choose carefully and use hardware that is designed for flexibility. For example a wood furring strip can be installed at a given height in order to accommodate points for hanging paintaings. And for example a plywood rectangle can be installed where a wall phone is wanted such as in the kitchen.
Whatever wall treatment you use, don't use a "textured" or "splatter" finish. Those finishes make it much easier for walls to pick up dirt, and much harder to clean them. And frankly they look like poop, by way of "this is what you do to hide a bad plastering job or lumpy mud & tape job." More covering-up for crappy workmanship, as is endemic these days, bleh.
While we're on the subject, I can't understand floor treatments that deliberately use color patterns to "hide" dirt. Hiding dirt was a luxury of the petroleum era. In the future we're facing, dirt should show up readily on kitchen and bathroom floors so that it can be swept up or wiped up as quickly as possible without needing high-tech cleansers or mechanical cleaning equipment.
And along similar lines, woodgrain toilet seats are downright disgusting. Hiding poo-splatters is gross, and an overt health hazard. Poo that gets ground into the seat is equally gross and hazardous. To that, add the unfortunate habit of some males of not lifting the seat when they pee and you end up with a nasty smelly bathroom. Toilet seats need to be a solid color preferably a light color, for the same reason that floors need to show dirt: making it easy to keep clean with simple implements and cleansers, and minimizing the need for extreme cleaning treatments.
Note, males really should sit down while peeing in the toilet. Guys, wipe that smirk off your face and give this some thought.
You don't pour yourself a beverage from a pitcher held two feet above the glass, because you don't want it to splatter all over you. Consider what all those aerosolized droplets of pee-laden water do to your bathroom walls over time. Better yet go look in a public men's room that has been around a while, and note the areas of rust on the partitions adjacent the toilets and urinals. That rust is the result of years of pee-splatters corroding the metal. In the future we're facing, we can't repaint and replace things to suit our convenience; maintenance comes first. And sitting down to pee minimizes the splatter factor, thus keeping walls next to the toilets clean and minimizing the need to repaint surfaces frequently.
Guys who like to show off their ability to pee standing up should do it outdoors, preferably where the neighbors have a full frontal view just to be sure. After all, if you're going to show off, show off. Otherwise be a good dawg and sit.
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If the bedroom and laundry are upstairs, the sewing room might want to be upstairs also: all the "textiles work" being done in the same area. On a single-story floorplan, the washer (and dryer even if it's seldom used by way of using a clothes line most of the time) could live under the kitchen counters as is common in the UK and Europe. I've never understood the need for a separate laundry room unless it's also a sewing room or something, in which case it might also have a radio and a decent interior decor since it's more than just a closet.
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Re. "she likes six to eight steps up to the porch." As compared to what, zero steps or more than eight? I seriously suggest planning for a wheelchair ramp. 100% of humans will use a wheelchair, walker, or cane at some point in their lives, and this needs to be planned for in the design of buildings. This may mean providing enough clearance in front of the building to allow a ramp to be installed while keeping the stairs, or it may be designed to replace the stairs. Either way, don't neglect this detail in the original planning.
While we're on the subject of accessiblity: at least on the ground floor, 36" wide doors throughout and grab handles in the bathroom including in the shower/tub. And make sure the shower wall is strong enough to support a seat bolted to it for sit-down showering. Again, this is not an abstraction; unless you're expecting to send people to nursing homes when they become old enough to need accessible furnishings, it's a darn good idea to build your house with accessible furnishings.
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"chips, pumps, and 'stats." Avoid computer control like the plague. Use an ordinary mechanical thermostat for any thermosatic function. Use one with a timer if you want to add a function to turn on the heat in the morning 1/2 hour before people get up. Aside from that, people need to learn how to use switches. There was a time when switches for electrical devices were regarded as the height of convenience. There will soon be a time when people look back and say "Electricity 24 hours a day for anything besides the fridge? Reeeeealllllly.....?"
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Jeff Vail re. Sonoran desert: Where does your water come from?
If it's a well, where are you going to get parts to repair the well pump when it eventually stops working and you have no water? At minimum I'd strongly suggest an elevated storage tank to assure there's a week or so of water above ground so you have time to hunt down repair/replacement materials for the well pump.
If you have city water, do your research to find out where it comes from, and if it's an above-ground source, find out what plans are in place particularly to deal with climate change.
Take nothing for granted.
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Strawbale: "The First Little Pig built his house out of straw..."
I would say, not in earthquake territory or where there is a lot of rain or humidity. The CA codes for strawbale are basically post and beam construction where the strawbales are used as filler or curtain walls. This doesn't strike me as a ringing endorsement of the structural capabilities of straw bales.
OTOH it would not surprise me if someone in our group wanted to build a straw bale house, in which case I'll support their right to choose and even help them with the construction. And then proceed to eat my words if my criticisms turned out to be wrong.
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Dammit I sure am opinionated about this stuff. Maybe I should have been an architect...?:-)
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Nicholai, I'm not looking to join up with you up there, but if you want to hook up and network on stuff with our group, that would be cool. BTW, given the offers of members you've gotten so far, I would suggest creating a policy about political refugees from the US. Just in case we don't have an election next year.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
SCFs
Again, I think all or at least most of your questions about Arxx are answered in the instructions download link I posted earlier including how to install their window and door buck system or ones site built. Special attention is paid to concrete placement under windows and doors.
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Steps
In the last section view I posted you can see the final grade at the rear of the house at the sewing rm / kitchen area is only 18” or so below the first floor level. As I mentioned before the site is only slightly rolling so in order to build a storm shelter in a walk-out basement (which is a requirement due to the perched water table) there will be quite a good amount of spoils to berm the sides and back.
Of course this complicates the garage location and construction somewhat. I had thought access to the back of the house for wood storage; animal shelters, etc would be through the garage but perhaps may rethink that in redoing the layout of the downstairs ½ bath and laundry room. Maybe the ½ bath might get a tub (sewing rm/guest rm/future master bdrm) and still have room to get an outside door next to the garage door in the mud rm. so that there would still be an airlock – I’ll need to move the garage some.
Chips…
Yea, that is what I like about the thermo-siphon idea. Short term, controls, pumps etc would make the system more efficient I would think, but at some future date at least the collector system would still be capable of operating using only hand operated valves.
Warm water storage
Would the mud room be too far from the porch collectors for a storage/heat transfer tank? (back corner of the house – 30ft at the closest) _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 12:18 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
LOL
As I’m fiddling around with the floor plan, it dawns on me that an upstairs laundry on the North side of the house is pretty inconvenient for usage of one of the cheapest, most efficient and cost effective alternative appliances one can own and which has been the subject of more than one thread around here.
Joined: May 24, 2004 Posts: 3428 Location: California, USA
Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Re. the cheapest solar appliance: That would be the clothes line. Unless it was accessed via a large window or porch or something.
In my designs everything's on the ground floor so that's not an issue; outdoor clothes lines out the back door, and hooks for indoor lines for overnight & rainy weather (yes I don't mind living in an eco-industrial rabbit warren:-).
In a 2-story house, to avoid the slip & fall hazard of lugging laundry up & down stairs, perhaps a drop chute that could be fitted with a hand-powered dumbwaiter or something...
ICFs & windows: I downloaded the 13 meg reference document. Very interesting stuff. They say place the concrete under window & door openings before placing anything else. I'll have to look at this in more detail to figure out what to do if windows are higher off the floor and smaller.
Opinionated: But I did say "IMHO" at least once!:-) I figured we're all used to feisty debates around here, but okeydoke I can tone it down a bit.
One I didn't mention so far: no windows inside of shower/bath areas. The idea of a wood-framed or even plastics-framed window in an area that's subject to water spray & splash (even behind a shower curtain; bad idea, where we gonna' get replacement shower curtains from?) is insane: and water leakage from the window frame into the wall practically assures wood rot...
Speaking of shower curtains: better to use sliding glass doors into shower stalls. Plastic shower curtains are difficult to keep clean, eventually grow mold, can tear around the little circles at the top where they are attached to the sliders, and thus have to be replaced every few years: something we can't count on in the expected future.
Good point about modularizing the household control system with backups. Use automation while it's still available & working, and if it breaks and you can't get parts, have switches & manual valves as a backup. Best of both worlds. I'll suggest that to our people as well, we could use that idea in our own designs. Though personally I'll stick with switches & valves when I build, in part due to the necessity of conserving first-cost.
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1371 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:05 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Pops wrote:
Chips…
Yea, that is what I like about the thermo-siphon idea. Short term, controls, pumps etc would make the system more efficient I would think, but at some future date at least the collector system would still be capable of operating using only hand operated valves.
Warm water storage
Would the mud room be too far from the porch collectors for a storage/heat transfer tank? (back corner of the house – 30ft at the closest)
30 feet is almost certainly too far for thermosiphon, especially at the temperature we've discussed. Using a simple mechanical thermostat could work if you put it in the basement on the south wall and used a pump.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:15 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
gg3 wrote:
That would be the clothes line.
Yea, that’s it. I’m thinking Miss doesn’t do clothes lines now but may want to one day.
Of course there is that big south facing balcony, if one doesn’t care about airing their laundry…
Opinionated: Pops gets grumpy sometimes - so my granddaughter says.
Bath Windows
Ventilation and light without an energy source seems a good thing - in fact right now a code requirement for baths if I remember. Not subject to direct spray for sure - or did you mean just in the shower enclosure?
Man, I have worked on many rotted out bathrooms. I am convinced there is no way to keep moisture from wood when moisture exudes from us continously. I don’t know what to to do here. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Nov 03, 2007 Posts: 195 Location: cascadia
Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
gg3 wrote:
Opinionated: But I did say "IMHO" at least once! I figured we're all used to feisty debates around here, but okeydoke I can tone it down a bit.
You're funny...
I was thinking of it of a brainstorming session more than a debate; there's lots of great stuff here that might work in other applications, even if Pops decides not to use them for his house. The thread title says it all, in that I think he recognizes there are going to be some compromises, but it seems to me he is planning to do quite a lot to increase energy efficiency. This will definitely not be a Quadrant home ...
You've added bunches of great stuff, so thanks. BTW, do you have any web links to projects you've worked on?
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2673 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Pops wrote:
Bath Windows
Ventilation and light without an energy source seems a good thing - in fact right now a code requirement for baths if I remember. Not subject to direct spray for sure - or did you mean just in the shower enclosure?
Man, I have worked on many rotted out bathrooms. I am convinced there is no way to keep moisture from wood when moisture exudes from us continously. I don’t know what to to do here.
I thought about this for a long time last winter/spring. My shower had a window in it that leaked and rotted the wall out. I knew the window had to go but moisture would be an issue. I don't know about code and frankly didn't care in this case. Code let someone put a window in a shower when it was guaranteed to be pounded by water regularly. Anyways I deleted the window, added a "sun tube" for light and a good vented bathroom fan on a timer and humistat(sp). If/when the power goes out for good I'll have to worry about moisture build up in there. I do have a window just outside the door that will help. I figure if it's bad I'll use my onsite generated (solar/wind) electricity to push the air with a small fan.
Anyways my decision was based on the fact that I know of no way to put a window in a shower area and not have it eventually fail and leak. Moisture will take decades to work through the cement board and do damage but a window will fail in only a few years. If I survive decades without electricity fixing the bathroom will be easy in comparison.
BTW that leaky window cost me just over $3000 and I did 100% of the work. _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
Joined: Oct 16, 2004 Posts: 1371 Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:44 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
strider3700 wrote:
I thought about this for a long time last winter/spring. My shower had a window in it that leaked and rotted the wall out. I knew the window had to go but moisture would be an issue. I don't know about code and frankly didn't care in this case. Code let someone put a window in a shower when it was guaranteed to be pounded by water regularly. Anyways I deleted the window, added a "sun tube" for light and a good vented bathroom fan on a timer and humistat(sp).
Suntubes provide a surprising amount of light. There are several effective treatments to preclude the transmission of water into your drywall/wood. I have my ceiling fan connected to my air-to-air heat exchanger, so that in the winter, I recapture the warmth from any air that needs expelling. Note, though, that during the winter, you will want to retain warm moist air in the house; just leave the bathroom door open after the person is done with their shower. The bathroom will dry out quickly.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6372 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
strider3700 wrote:
BTW that leaky window cost me just over $3000 and I did 100% of the work.
Ouch!
Showers
I haven’t drawn this into the floor plan but it seems to me the best thing is to place the showerhead on the same wall as the door to the shower eliminating enclosures all together and allowing free air circulation. The floor space is about double an average shower and though expensive, real mud pans and walls under tile seem best.
Floors
When I was a kid I laid carpet and vinyl. Obviously carpet doesn’t belong in a bathroom though you would be surprised how many houses in the ‘70s did originally. Anyway, since vinyl is waterproof it winds up directing any water directly to wood, whether it is the subfloor at the tub, w/c, cabinetry, seams etc or even worse to the plate and studs. Even high dollar material, full cove (vinyl run up the wall a few inches) and expert installation will fail eventually.
I’m thinking tile or stone over mud or solid 3/4in hardwood floors are the most durable aside from maybe terrazzo (exposed aggregate concrete ground and polished like you see at the mall). Our house is almost 100 years old and aside from some termite damage even the softwood floors are in pretty good shape. (fir or pine floors and an oak frame – go figure)
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Another big problem is plumbing is always hidden or at least out of sight. Once upon a time I made pretty good money and bought a high line, real live fireclay farmers sink and hauled it to Missouri. I built the sink base with an old fashion open bottom. Before I installed the sink cabinet and d/w I laid tile in those areas. I also placed the backer board with a slope back to front about 1/4in per foot.
The idea is that when the plumbing eventually starts to leak (or the plumbers lack of skill becomes apparent) the water will run out on the floor where it is visible and not down under the cabinet base to rot away the subfloor for years.
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Toilets
Water closet gaskets fail. I have replaced countless subfloors and joists because of poor w/c installations. Usually it is drain flanges set at the wrong height or broken – if your w/c is wobbly it is leaking. I’m not even sure they make them any more but the best w/c has 2 bolts to the flange and 2 more to the floor.
Wobbly w/c are another reason to use tile over mud and for goodness sakes, make sure the flange is at the right height and when placing the mud get it flat and smooth!
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Tubs
I’m thinking for all the reasons above old fashion claw foot tubs in tile alcoves are best – exposed plumbing, air circulation etc. We got one in really good shape for $100 – the porcelain is near perfect. A little sandblasting and good paint on the outside and it will easily last another 100 years.
Even when installing a modern tub over an infloor system, run the concrete under the tub. In my experience failure of the finish floor at the tub is second only to wobbly w/c as the reason for dry rot in bathrooms.
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Framing
Finally, as green board (water resistant drywall) and newer non cellulose drywall is required in wet locations, why not use treated wood framing in those areas as well.
Seems like a no-brainer… _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Apr 17, 2005 Posts: 2673 Location: Vancouver Island
Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House
Pops wrote:
Framing
Finally, as green board (water resistant drywall) and newer non cellulose drywall is required in wet locations, why not use treated wood framing in those areas as well.
Seems like a no-brainer…
I'm concerned about off gassing from treated wood. The chemicals in that stuff are unbelievably nasty and I'm not overly keen on having them in my house. _________________ shame on us, doomed from the start
god have mercy on our dirty little hearts
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