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Pops
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 6372
Location: My Grandkids' Farm
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 Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:58 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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Well, lil-Miss owns a farm; we just signed over the deed.
Congratulations Miss!
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Pops
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Location: My Grandkids' Farm
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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| strider3700 wrote: | | I'm concerned about off gassing from treated wood. The chemicals in that stuff are unbelievably nasty and I'm not overly keen on having them in my house. |
I guess one could use redwood.
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UncoveringTruths
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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Strider,
I have it on reliable information that treated wood is safer than it used to be. My Sutherlands manager friend has assured me that they only use the alkaline copper quat (ACQ types B and D) and copper azole (CBA-A, CA-B). Part of the run-up in it's cost.
| Quote: | Nearly 40 million lb. of arsenic is used in this country every year, and most of it goes into the pressure-treated wood that we use to build decks and playgrounds. But that all changes Jan. 1, 2004. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) is banning chromated copper arsenate (CCA) as a preservative for wood intended for residential use (except for the lumber that is used in permanent wood foundations). CCA-treated lumber will still be available for industrial and agricultural use, however.
By the way, there's no need to panic about existing CCA-treated structures. The EPA says that they're fine. But if you're nervous about the chances of leaching chromium and arsenic, you can make your deck or swing set safer by coating it with an oil-based penetrating stain every couple of years.
Taking CCA's place as a preservative are two waterborne compounds: alkaline copper quat (ACQ types B and D) and copper azole (CBA-A, CA-B). Sold under the trade names Preserve, NatureWood, and Natural Select, they have been used around the world for up to 15 years. These EPA-approved low-toxicity pesticides resist bugs, mold, and rot as effectively as CCA. (See How much safer? for more on quat and azoles.) |
The EPA has banned CCA lumber
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topcat
Heavy Crude
Joined: Feb 01, 2006
Posts: 474
Location: Northern US
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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Pops talk about plumbing brings up thoughts about our second-story remodel job. We gutted to the framing.
When installing the bath, and the wetbar, we installed access panels to the wetwalls.
Although the bath access required a nice 'carpentry' finish as the common wall was exposed on the other side, the wetbar was easier as it was under the wetbar.
This was learned earlier (thank God) as we had a plumbing problem in an older area that we had to cut a mansize access to reach.
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Pops
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Location: My Grandkids' Farm
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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OK, here is an updated 1st f/p
I’ve done a couple of things per suggestions.
Solar
OK Sky, here is my latest idea.
As the porch is pretty tall I put a slab on grade under it to house warm water storage on both ends. Of course it is in an insulated enclosure and about as close to the collectors as possible. I think this is about perfect, at least for domestic water and the best I can do for infloor, which will need a pump in any event.
Downstairs Bed rm
Moved the garage west in order to get a full bath downstairs
Access
Put an outside door in the mud rm. to have access to the back of the house from the 1 st floor to grade with a couple of steps
Kitchen Stove etc.
Put a wood stove in the kitchen and a flue enclosure to serve the kitchen, basement and upstairs Master bdrm. I probably need to pour a footing for this one.
Enlarged the flue enclosure on the west wall to match for a future stove in the small bedrms and HVAC chase.
Lots of dang expensive pipe in there...
Here is an updated foundation and footing plan
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SpringCreekFarm
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 835
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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| Pops wrote: | | strider3700 wrote: | | I'm concerned about off gassing from treated wood. The chemicals in that stuff are unbelievably nasty and I'm not overly keen on having them in my house. |
I guess one could use redwood. |
If you need dimensional lumber, consider using steel studs or if you need wood then red cedar. Of course, whatever is available in your area is what to look at. Those would be my choices up here in Ontario. |
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Pops
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Location: My Grandkids' Farm
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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| SpringCreekFarm wrote: | | ... consider using steel studs. |
I like lightweight steel for a couple of reasons and will probably use them for most partition walls.
Less weight than wood when going over a span
You can seal the structure watertight and place partition walls at leisure after getting a feel for the space.
They are easier to move and recycle at a future date – though not much.
Downside is they buckle fast when hot
Are a more expensive material (the savings in the system is the labor - not so much a consideration in the Project house)
Need special treatment with wiring and mechanicals
And they rust. I’m thinking not a good idea for plumbing walls and for sure not bearing walls subject to moisture.
For sure CCA was bad stuff but with an interior vapor barrier and a vapor permeable exterior wrap it seems even that system was OK as long as one worked the details.
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SpringCreekFarm
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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| Quote: | Downside is they buckle fast when hot
Are a more expensive material (the savings in the system is the labor - not so much a consideration in the Project house)
Need special treatment with wiring and mechanicals |
Buckle when hot? How hot does it get there????
They are very competitive with spruce studs up here.
The wiring holes are prestamped in the stud up here. You need special electical boxes but that's no biggie.
| Quote: | | And they rust. I’m thinking not a good idea for plumbing walls and for sure not bearing walls subject to moisture. |
Hmmm. Just goes to show you how different things can be in different parts of North America. I've heard that it is recommended to use steel studs in my basement reno where there could be a risk of flooding due to a malfunctioning sump pump. Mold doesn't like to grow on it either compared to a wood stud.
I have some steel studs and plates back at the barn that have been laying around for a few years with no rust on them at all even where I cut them and got past the galvanized coating. Oh well believe me.....I'm certainly no expert.
| Quote: | | For sure CCA was bad stuff but with an interior vapor barrier and a vapor permeable exterior wrap it seems even that system was OK as long as one worked the details. |
I've actually never heard of CCA "gasing" as mentioned earlier but like I said, I'm no expert. I just won't use it where it can come into contact with food items and I wouldn't burn it. |
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UncoveringTruths
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Nov 04, 2004
Posts: 848
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:03 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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| SpringCreekFarm wrote: |
I've actually never heard of CCA "gasing" as mentioned earlier but like I said, I'm no expert. I just won't use it where it can come into contact with food items and I wouldn't burn it. |
CCA has been banned by the EPA for residential construction in 2004. You probably can't even get it without special ordering and probably need a contractors license to boot.
I first learned about the hazards of CCA right here in the planning for the future forum. So I took my concerns to a person who runs a multimillion dollar lumberyard and he assured me that the new process for treating the lumber is much safer. It is basically a copper bath that they treat the lumber with. Unless copper is a considered a hazardous material we can all relax our concerns on treated lumber.
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Pops
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 6372
Location: My Grandkids' Farm
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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| SpringCreekFarm wrote: | | ... |
like you I claim no expertise except my own experience.
Certainly in a partition wall (heat) it isn’t a big deal but again, 1/2in drywall doesn’t have much capability to withstand heat.
You can’t run Romex through the openings in the studs without groments or pipes without isolators unless you want the pipes knocking and the wires sparking.
Re: flooding could be different from repeated wet dry cycles, I’m thinking.
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skyemoor
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Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1371
Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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A couple of points:
1. One thermal storage tank is better than two. Less plumbing, less loss. I saw one architect's home where he created his own water-filled storage tank with cinderblocks (obviously rebar-ed and cavity-filled); don't recall what it was lined with. It was approximately 6'x12'x4' and stored the heat from a solar collector array on the roof and from coils on a woodstove zero clearance insert. The size of the storage tank helped maintain temps in Northern Virginia for at least two cloudy days without firing the woodstove. Here's a similar setup - http://www.green-trust.org/2003/fireandwater.htm
2. The front porch is back to 6' depth, which implies the same for the 2nd floor balcony and overhang. This is just a friendly reminder that such an extensive overhang depth will greatly diminish the passive solar contribution.
3. Is there any heat downstairs besides the woodstove? Is the slab to be insulated? If yes, it will be warmer in the winter and summer.
4. If your daughter is planning on having kids, put the door to the downstairs bathroom through the mudroom will keep lots of muddy shoes from tracking through the house, unless you train them to use the basement bathroom.
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SpringCreekFarm
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 03, 2006
Posts: 835
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| Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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| UncoveringTruths wrote: | | SpringCreekFarm wrote: |
I've actually never heard of CCA "gasing" as mentioned earlier but like I said, I'm no expert. I just won't use it where it can come into contact with food items and I wouldn't burn it. |
CCA has been banned by the EPA for residential construction in 2004. You probably can't even get it without special ordering and probably need a contractors license to boot.
I first learned about the hazards of CCA right here in the planning for the future forum. So I took my concerns to a person who runs a multimillion dollar lumberyard and he assured me that the new process for treating the lumber is much safer. It is basically a copper bath that they treat the lumber with. Unless copper is a considered a hazardous material we can all relax our concerns on treated lumber. |
Actually I knew that, now that you mention it. I remember someone at the lumber yard saying it was changing a while back and that it wasn't as much of a hazard. I use so little of it that I don't really follow it as close as I should. |
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skyemoor
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Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1371
Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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Passive Solar Overhang Comparison
I've run some numbers comparing
- A. 4' overhang with 6' windows (first data column)
- B. 6' overhang with 5' windows (second data column)
The following is the Daily BTU x1000 Solar Insolation per window (glazing losses not included). If you choose to use 8 windows on the south side, multiply the numbers by 8 (March numbers go to zero for B windows away from the edges).
Jan 29 23
Feb 24 16
Mar 11 2
Oct 22 15
Nov 28 22
Dec 39 24
(Above values obtained via Solar-2 freeware)
As you can see, there is a tremendous difference between the two approaches. The choices between particular aesthetics and attaining strong passive solar performance is not unheard of with clients who start out with the preference for traditional appearance. One way to truly compare it is to see the heat balance calculations to understand the heat load.
As we settle in on a design, we can start running the numbers using the spreadsheet that Culi provided so everyone can learn how to approximate designs that they might want to consider.
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Last edited by skyemoor on Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:35 am; edited 2 times in total |
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skyemoor
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Joined: Oct 16, 2004
Posts: 1371
Location: Appalachian Foothills of Virginia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 9:12 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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Selecting windows for thermal performance
Windows are the greatest source of heat loss in the winter and heat gain in the summer in a well-constructed (tight) home. These unwanted losses and gains can be mitigated by;
- Using high Solar Heat Gain Coefficient[SHGC] south-facing windows with overhangs to collect solar heat
- Selecting high R-value windows
- Reducing window area on east, west, and north
- Reducing solar gain in the summer
- Limiting window area on the east and west
- Providing shading to east, south, and west windows, and/or
- Selecting windows with a 'heat shield' treatment (low SHGC)
Reducing air infiltration in the winter is also important; the air leakage (AL) rating is expressed as the equivalent cubic feet of air passing through a square foot of the product's area (cfm/sq ft). The lower the AL, the less air infiltration.
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http://www.velomobile.de/GB/Advantages/advantages.html
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He that lives upon hope will die fasting. --Benjamin Franklin |
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Pops
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Joined: Apr 03, 2004
Posts: 6372
Location: My Grandkids' Farm
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| Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Project Stealth PO House |
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Thanks for that link sky.
The formula noted there for distance from heat source to storage on the hot side is for each foot rise the max run is 2 feet.
I thought the cool water entering the bottom of the collector and being warmed and so rising was the source of the siphon and didn’t realize the pipe rise was that important.
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