Preparing your children

Fredrik · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Preparing your children

I've got two kids, aged three and two. (I know, I know, I'm an unconscientious resource-draining breeder, but that's not the point.) Now I'm feeling the burden of being the father of children who are going to experience the most radical energy crisis of history, and that burden just keeps getting heavier.

After ten or fifteen years, I assume the situation might be as follows:

- We still live in a modestly sized urban/semi-urban apartment, within walkable distance to stores, but also next to thousands of disillusioned and impoverished people. (Moving to the countryside would be very difficult and most probably unnecessary in my case.)

- The unemployment rate exceeds 50%; I may be included in that percentage if my career plans have failed.

- As the state, while still functional, has lost most of its revenues, it can do little more than try to secure food production, warming, some electricity, elementary schooling and security for the citizens. If it gets really nasty, welfare paychecks and even wages might be issued as food rations. Free market is a thing of the past, so it's up to the government to run things the best it can.

- No TV, internet, CD players, iPods, car trips to the sport center or frequent weekend holidays at Grandma's who lives 30 miles away. Toys and books are expensive and in limited supply. I'll have bought enough different-sized bicycles well in advance though.

- Future employment prospects for youth are mostly in the manual work sector.

- Crime and alcoholism are rampant.

- No hope of any meaningful economic recovery in sight.

So... how are you going to prepare your children to face all that? How can you raise them to cope with hardships, lack of entertainment, cold and darkness, and to expect (at best) a lifetime of hard work?

It's really difficult to keep them from imbibing the mindsets and values of the current prosperous lifestyle they see all around them.

I guess we could already have "powerdown days" or weeks, when we eat very modestly, turn off all electronic devices, have only one or two lights on at a time and try to make the most of it with books and board games and such. But I know I would have been angry to no end if I had had to give up TV and computer when I was a kid.

It'll probably get even harder when they're teenagers. By then it's going to be very important to belong to a community where youth can be encouraged to pursue healthy activities together, instead of just hanging around on the streets.

Do you have similar ideas?
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vision-master · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 10:35 am Post subject: Re: Preparing your children

aflurry · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 822

"...to expect (at best) a lifetime of hard work."

many have considered this to be as supreme a joy as life could bring.

everything has a trade-off. try to understand the good side of the changes that you experience and teach your children to appreciate them too.

TheTurtle · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:28 am Post subject: Re: Preparing your children

I like your notion of "powerdown days". If you teach your children that there are other possibilities than the lives in which they find themselves, then you give them the mental flexibility which will be essential for coping with the uncertain times ahead.

The other thing to consider is that you are judging things from your perspective. The world your children inherit will be very different than the one you grew into and they will probably therefore be better able to cope with it than you might imagine.
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kevincarter · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Preparing your children

This is an excellent topic, I've been thinking a lot about that too.

My conclusion is that our current system doesn't work in the long run, and one big important part of our system is the way in which we are told to bring up our children, I've read so many books about it and even found some titled "How to domesticate your children", I think that's sick. So for all that I think I should rise my kids in a more natural way, because nature, after all, works.

By rising kids in a natural way I mean among other things giving them lots of time and care, no matter what the cost is. Some people give away 2 or 3 years of their salary (time spent at work) for a car, or even 30 or 50 years for a house, why shouldn't I give away 2, 3 or 30 years of my time to be with my sons? It's not easy, I know, but you only have one life.

Some fundamental values can help them past peak or in any other number of situations are love for freedom, self esteem (gained through knowing that you can do things for yourself like start a fire without a lighter, build a hut, hunt, fish, grow your own food, all the way up to technical stuff) Universal moral values such as justice, word, respect for the old, for life, for God etc. Also problem, moron and potential danger identification, be it financial, social, political or whatever. Negotiation and critical thinking.

I'm more into giving them strong emotional and practical foundations from which they can build whatever they want to be.

I think if we bring up our children in a very "normal" way (TV, kindergarden, school, junk food, dumb spending, no time for them, little love, technology worship, lots of screaming, lies etc...) then they'll have a hard time when the current way to do things switches to something more painful.

There are two points that I consider very important to avoid, one is TV and the other one is school. TV will be the last thing to go, if TV goes down then its back to the caves for sure. TV keeps people's mind off thinking and in sync with the government. Its very usefull to sell stuff and ideas. If there is scarcity of stuff then they'll keep selling you ideas like they do in North Korean TV or Cuban TV. Also it shows you all the things that you can't have, no matter how rich you are, which can lead to frustration. In TV the thinking is done for you, so you don'thave to think. For all that and much more we don't have a TV, really, think about it, its a waste of time. Once you try it you'll never allow the damm thing back in the house. And regarding school we'll try homeschooling them, they're too young now. I don't need to explain the evils of school, do I?
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gnm · Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Preparing your children

Whew, when I saw that thread title I thought it was a little disconcerting... Sort of along the lines of To Serve Man... Shocked

-G
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aflurry · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 28, 2005 Posts: 822

wisconsin_cur · Moderator Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2918

I have to agree about the TV, limit the competing messages coming to your kids. WE have a 3 and a 1 year old and we have not had a TV for around five years now.

I am ambivalent about the educational system. Frankly, I will never convince my wife to home school so why torture myself (and her) trying. I will be making the most of every educational moment i am given. Teaching the boys about humanity and life through what they experience.

I also treat them as much like people with rights and responsibilites as possible. This means explaining things to them that other people would try to hide or assume they cannot understand. my oldest surprised me the other day. Sitting on my lap looking at a bell curve he said, "Is this peak oil?" "Yes it is bud, yes it is..." I am also reading Tom Sawyer to him, I encourage him to explore, next summer I think I will let him venture a little farther from teh house, even out of sight.

I want them to be able to make their own decisions as men... and training for that end begins today.

Having kids is a gamble. they are there own people. We do the best to steer them in the right direction but in the end they will chart their own path.
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mos6507 · Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 4:44 am Post subject: Re: Preparing your children

I can only say for myself that I'm keeping my daughter in the dark as long as possible and letting her enjoy the peak fully. She doesn't need to know that Santa isn't real and she doesn't need to know that her future standard of living is going to inexorably decline. She'll find that out on her own as she lives it, hopefully with as much mitigation as I'm able to administer along the way.

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1394

I don't know about keeping them in the dark. Not completely, anyway. I don't sit around and fill my boys with doom and gloom about how bad the future is going to be, but at the same time, I do drop subtle - and sometimes not-so-subtle - hints about how the world may change by the time they're my age.

It helps when you are able to show them alternatives, though. For example, I've often told the boys they shouldn't even plan on being able to drive a car regularly as an adult - just telling them that gas will cost too much for most people to be able to afford - but we also have many friends who ride horses and have teams that pull wagons. That's an alternative for getting places that they enjoy, and one that will become more necessary as time goes on.

We already heat with wood. Yesterday my oldest was saying it was cold in his bedroom. I told him, "of course it is - you've got the door closed and you're down the hall from the stove. Put on a sweater or come to the livingroom."

They already know that we take our garden seriously because it feeds us. For now, they know that mom doesn't want to pay the higher prices at the store, and the home grown stuff is better for you, but they also know we don't waste. Just the other night, we were talking about a "what happens if" scenario - related to storms, I think, and not being able to get food and water. The boys understood that preparing for just this type of emergency (and longer ones) is why we keep a stocked pantry.

We also limit the boys' TV watching time. Yes, we still have a TV, but it's not the center of the universe here. It's used as a place to relax and take a break. It rarely comes on until about an hour before bedtime for the boys, and we monitor (and pick) what they watch. We give them alternatives, and encourage play - just do something.

We also work together as a family on many of the projects that are part of our preparations. The boys help taking care of the animals, and understand that in doing so they help to secure some of our food, and some (small part) of our income.

I honestly don't think any of us can fully prepare our children for what's coming, when we are uncertain ourselves what the future will bring. All we can do is offer them alternatives to the consumerist insanity around them - and do so in a way that shows the positives that exist in a lower-consumption lifestyle, so they don't resent it. We try to promote the values of frugality, hard work, ingenuity, community-mindedness, strength of family, and faith. You cannot prepare them for every potential possibility, but you can teach them the skills that will help them deal with the difficulties they will likely face down the road.

Kathy

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5389 Location: Oklahoma

I try to teach my son to be aware of how much we use electricity, and he knows we may not always have it. I don't do it to scare him, just matter of factly so he won't take it for granted so much. He's only 3 and he's very good about turning things off when they aren't in use. I try to make him aware of how we use energy. He also understands that food doesn't originate in the grocery store, and why we have "emergency food" and supplies. Whenever we see food or cotton being grown (including animals), I point it out to him and we talk about it. I teach him when it is and isn't acceptable to use violence. I'm careful not to instill fear in him in all of this.
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Baldwin · Intermediate Crude Joined: Feb 05, 2007 Posts: 552

While relocating to the hinterland may not be feasible, consider moving closer to relatives. While your businessman brother (in law) might think you're a kook, that won't last when he's out of work and broke in two weeks.

Try and avoid school. It's castrating and a tool of the state. Your kids will be tempted by the fruits of consumerism and infinite growth. Every day I see people with $400+ of electronics hanging off them with expensive clothes (A. Eagle, A & Fitch etc), and of course cars. (I'm 18 ). I am not a driver and I do not expect to drive.

While they fetter away their money on food or hoard it in banks, I sock it away as bullion. Care to adopt me? As a bonus, you get a free silver eagle. Wink

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Barbara · Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: Re: Preparing your children

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5389 Location: Oklahoma

MrBean · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Sep 26, 2004 Posts: 1144

Father of two (three & eight) here.

First of all, why is moving to the countryside out of question?

Having made the "mistake" of having children, and having become EOWAWKIDOLT-consciouss (sounds like a shout of pain, doesn't it), I don't see much point in raising my kids as part of the useless surpluss population, nothing but extra mouths to feed. And on the other hand, without plentifull fuel there will be lot of need for muscle power to work the fields and other basic production.

So, as I don't have that many agricultural and other basic skills, my best and propably only choise (with some chance of dignity) is to gang up with similar people in same situation, move out ASAP and start learning, so the kids can learn too and learn better - which is near impossible in the city. In practice that means ecovillage, an existing one or founding a new one.

I'm slowly getting started, have visited one place allready and planning to make lot's of other visits to the allready existing ecovillages to get acquainted with people and places and to get some free work practice.

But I still haven't got the faintest idea when, how and what to tell my kids, especially the older one. The idea of crushing the - very urban - dreams of a young boy breaks my own heart. But I allready broke my wife's dreams, so with that experience behind us, I believe we'll find a way, when the right moment comes.