Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
There are also some smaller ones in existence or planned.
Boyo, these are not actual operations, they are only experiments, or worse yet, just plans. Shell has now partially withdrawn from its experiment in Colorado, citing economic reasons, whilst the last time someone tried to turn shale into oil in Gladstone the company went broke. I think this will be the third time some dumbass will get to have their teeth broken by that particular toilet bowl.
There are also some smaller ones in existence or planned.
Boyo, these are not actual operations, they are only experiments, or worse yet, just plans.
So what? Using the bizarre logic of "It's never been done before, so it'll never be done in the future," we would assume that underwater oil exploration would never have been done, because at one point in time, it never had been done before. Or, producing energy from solar panels would never be done, because at one point in time, it had never been done before. Or we might say that humans would never build a flying machine, because at one point in time, it had never been done before.
Quote:
Shell has now partially withdrawn from its experiment in Colorado, citing economic reasons,
This is what you get when you read the Green Car Congress news. Shell did not withdraw its permit because it is permanently abandoning the project, it just want some more time to refine its research:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6155257?source=rss
Notice the title: Shell shelves oil-shale application to refine its research:
"Davis stressed that the withdrawal of the mining permit does not lessen Shell's commitment to continuing research at its Mahogany Research Project between Rangely and Meeker and eventually building demonstration projects on its federal leases.
"There is a very active program up there, and that will continue," Davis said."
Quote:
whilst the last time someone tried to turn shale into oil in Gladstone the company went broke. I think this will be the third time some dumbass will get to have their teeth broken by that particular toilet bowl.
It was abandoned in 2003 for technical reasons. If this latest group wants to try again and spend $12 billion on it, perhaps it's because they think they've solved the technical problems.
There are also some smaller ones in existence or planned.
Boyo, these are not actual operations, they are only experiments, or worse yet, just plans.
So what? Using the bizarre logic of "It's never been done before, so it'll never be done in the future," we would assume that underwater oil exploration would never have been done, because at one point in time, it never had been done before. Or, producing energy from solar panels would never be done, because at one point in time, it had never been done before. Or we might say that humans would never build a flying machine, because at one point in time, it had never been done before.
Quote:
Shell has now partially withdrawn from its experiment in Colorado, citing economic reasons,
This is what you get when you read the Green Car Congress news. Shell did not withdraw its permit because it is permanently abandoning the project, it just want some more time to refine its research:
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_6155257?source=rss
Notice the title: Shell shelves oil-shale application to refine its research:
"Davis stressed that the withdrawal of the mining permit does not lessen Shell's commitment to continuing research at its Mahogany Research Project between Rangely and Meeker and eventually building demonstration projects on its federal leases.
"There is a very active program up there, and that will continue," Davis said."
Quote:
whilst the last time someone tried to turn shale into oil in Gladstone the company went broke. I think this will be the third time some dumbass will get to have their teeth broken by that particular toilet bowl.
It was abandoned in 2003 for technical reasons. If this latest group wants to try again and spend $12 billion on it, perhaps it's because they think they've solved the technical problems.
Pal, what part of the phrase "withdrawn for economic reasons" do you not understand? When you read the words "the numbers just never added up", what messages filter through your brain? If they, the professionals, can't get shale to work at $US13 a barrel then why do you, the armchair expert, believe it could do so at $30?
Last edited by peripato on Thu Dec 13, 2007 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:07 pm Post subject: Re: Western China oil shale: World's biggest?
Oil-Finder wrote:
That said absolutely nothing about the trillions of barrels of oil in unconventional sources. The peak oilers there seem to act as if it doesn't even exist.
Until it is produced, it doesn't. Whatever is in the ground right now still resisting attempts to tap it, will have no impact on the date of peak. The gradient of the downslope probably, but that's up to future experience to prove. Still in the ground while we ramped to $90 per barrel - yawn.
It's like living on a fixed income off a trust fund - you get peanuts thrown your way, but the capital is not yours to spend at the rate you desire. That's nature being a bitch. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Western China oil shale: World's biggest?
It's kind of entertaining watching Oil-Finder get his 'free' education. It has be costing him though, emotionally. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Western China oil shale: World's biggest?
pstarr wrote:
It's kind of entertaining watching Oil-Finder get his 'free' education. It has be costing him though, emotionally.
Please, spare me. You have no idea how many times I've debated peak oilers. The fun part is watching them go into denial when I show them reputable geologists telling us there's 300 billion or more barrels of oil in the Bakken, or 70 billion barrels off the coast of Brazil, or 60 billion barrels in the Falklands, not to mention hundreds of billions, if not trillions, in tar sands. Once I do this they do everything they can to minimize it, dismiss it, or some other excuse to try to explain it away. It's quite sad, actually.
Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: Western China oil shale: World's biggest?
Sure Oily. Looking at all 36 posts I would say you are some kind of veteran.
All these reserves are low quality and hard to reach and that is precisely why production, the only useful measure of peak and decline, will not increase. You can argue all sorts of exotic and hypothetical hydrocarbons but if we can not extract them at the current rate then they will not mitigate. comprehend? _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
The Canadian target is the northern tranche of Middle Bakken oil-shale-generated light sweet crude, 40 to 47 degree API oil (42-degree API average), sulphur-free, liquids rich, with a lucrative stream of associated gas – in the Lower Mississippian and Upper Devonian. It is the northern slice of a play running from Montana on the southwest to Manitoba on the Northeast.
Yes, many of them are hard to reach, but not all of them, and that also depends on what you mean by "hard to reach." Remote? Not always, the coast of Brazil is hardly remote, neither is North Dakota. Deep, yes some of this stuff is in deep water - so what? If there were 2 trillion barrels of oil in deep waters off the coasts of the world, does it really matter that they're in deep water? No, there would be soooo much of it, it would be, like, so what? We can now drill oil in deep water, so it's no longer an impediment to reaching it, and it thus has become available. And if there were 2 trillion barrels of it, we would hardly need to worry about running out of it any time soon.
Or maybe you mean it needs to be extracted with fancy technology, such as horizontal drilling. To which I reply again: So what? Once again, what if there were 2 trillion barrels of oil in the world easily extracted only with horizontal drilling. Why, exactly, would this imply that production was about to peak? Are you telling me they cannot reach it? No that would be false, they can now reach it. And the fact that there would be 2 trillion barrels of it available means that it's an immense resource which is now accessible to be extracted, and is hardly going to run out or "peak" any time soon.
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3625 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:12 am Post subject: Re: Western China oil shale: World's biggest?
How will you keep tar sands production up with the decline in North American NG discoveries and the peak in production coming soon - and with the growing lack of water for the projects? You can build nukes in situ - which will be only able to service a limited area from what I've read. Other than that it's up to exotic tech like the low energy small scale reactors we had a post about a few weeks ago, or the bacteria Graeme and you posted about - both unproven methods. NG is needed more and more meanwhile for electricity and heating. I already posted Skrebowski's analysis of LNG projects failing to happen, too.
Plus the problem with water. Albertans may eventually say enough to the whole thing.
Tar sands are pretty crappy stuff all around. The Bakken is a better long term investment - wells giving up their oil a trickle at a time, which is what we should have done with the stuff in the first place. Nukes and renewables are better ways to go, gradually switching over to electric vehicles. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
C'mon man, who're you gonna believe?
The Canadian target is the northern tranche of Middle Bakken oil-shale-generated light sweet crude, 40 to 47 degree API oil (42-degree API average), sulphur-free, liquids rich, with a lucrative stream of associated gas – in the Lower Mississippian and Upper Devonian. It is the northern slice of a play running from Montana on the southwest to Manitoba on the Northeast.
Yes, many of them are hard to reach, but not all of them, and that also depends on what you mean by "hard to reach." Remote? Not always, the coast of Brazil is hardly remote, neither is North Dakota. Deep, yes some of this stuff is in deep water - so what? If there were 2 trillion barrels of oil in deep waters off the coasts of the world, does it really matter that they're in deep water? No, there would be soooo much of it, it would be, like, so what? We can now drill oil in deep water, so it's no longer an impediment to reaching it, and it thus has become available. And if there were 2 trillion barrels of it, we would hardly need to worry about running out of it any time soon.
Or maybe you mean it needs to be extracted with fancy technology, such as horizontal drilling. To which I reply again: So what? Once again, what if there were 2 trillion barrels of oil in the world easily extracted only with horizontal drilling. Why, exactly, would this imply that production was about to peak? Are you telling me they cannot reach it? No that would be false, they can now reach it. And the fact that there would be 2 trillion barrels of it available means that it's an immense resource which is now accessible to be extracted, and is hardly going to run out or "peak" any time soon.
Do you have any evidence these non-conventional reserves will produce fast enough to offset declining conventional supplies? Please show us. Oh. And do not point to Alberta. please. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:35 am Post subject: Re: Western China oil shale: World's biggest?
pstarr wrote:
Do you have any evidence these non-conventional reserves will produce fast enough to offset declining conventional supplies? Please show us. Oh. And do not point to Alberta. please.
This reply is a perfect example of what I said before: "And do not point to Alberta. Please."
It is yet another example of dismissal/denial. You know this is an immense resource, but you do not want to hear me talk about it. Why? Not only is it an immense resource, it is even currently being exploited! The usual excuse by peak oilers concerning this is, "Oh, they haven't been able to increase output as quickly as they had hoped," or some similar excuse. Does this mean they will never be able to scale up production to several million barrels/day (or whatever the targets were)? Um no, it just meant it took longer for them to get up to speed than they originally thought. If you start building your own house, and you first thought it was going to take 6 months to finish, but it's now the 8th month and it still isn't done, does that mean it will NEVER be finished? Um, no. As long as you keep going, you will eventually finish it. It just took longer than expected.
Aside from the oil shale I'm not sure what other "unconventional" sources you had in mind. The Bakken? Well that's not entirely "unconventional," but from the link in my post above:
http://www.oilsandsreview.com/articles.asp?ID=350
^
Quote:
The prize, the scientists and analysts say, is something between 100 and 500 billion barrels of oil.
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