Like the illusion of Wall Street, with its vast and powerful investment banks, now shuttered, China too is an illusion perpetuated by the Globalists that gave us the 15,000 mile Caesar salad, poisoned cat food and lead based paint on babies' pacifiers. Like the illusion that money would come from thin air to always push housing prices higher, China has spent a generation pursuing its illusion. Pursuing an unattainable dream to be like the West, while 6000 years of its carefully shepherded top soil blows into the sea.
Joined: Mar 04, 2005 Posts: 2753 Location: New Zealand
Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Quote:
Today, however, I was surprised to see these two gentlemen linking to the same story on Next Energy News covering Toshiba's announcement of a "200 kilowatt" nuclear reactor only "20 feet by 6 feet" in size. Such a reactor could be installed in a garage-sized building and shared among the houses on just one residential block, the apartments in one large building, or a single good-size corporation headquarters. With maintenance-free operation and the price of the generated energy estimated at five cents per kilowatt-hour, this announcement appeared to undermine the usual arguments against nuclear power.
So even if your McMansion is filled with enough electronic gizmos to use up that 200-kilowatt power rating, there's no way it can dissipate 5 megawatts of thermal power. That's enough to heat over 200 homes during a 27° F (-3° C) cold snap. You'll just have to share.
cnet _________________ Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe. H. G. Wells.
Fatih Birol's motto: leave oil before it leaves us.
Joined: Jan 06, 2006 Posts: 508 Location: Pacific Northwest
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:44 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
That seems like an awful lot of wasted thermal energy....there has to be a way to recycle it back into the generator. _________________ We stand here, as the light of other days surrounds us.
"Hail the Dead"
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3625 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:34 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Got sidetracked investigating the Toshiba 4S, which is also a "nuclear battery." How does this differ from the Hyperion design?
The 4S cranks out 10MW. The small town of Galena in Alaska (it's much bigger than Texas - note proper punctuation, Plantagenet) plans to have one installed by 2013. Atomic Insights article.
Quote:
As currently envisioned, the Toshiba 4S (Super Safe, Small and Simple) nuclear power system would be able to supply about 10 MW of electrical power for 30 years without any new fuel. It could be transported in modules by barge and installed in a building measuring 22 meters by 16 meters by 11 meters with an excavation for the reactor core and primary cooling system of about 30 meters deep. (Nishi Feb 2005) Compared to the alternatives, the small nuclear plant would almost disappear into the background and would have little effect on the environment. Depending on a variety of assumptions, the cost for power could range as low as 6 cents per kilowatt hour. Unfortunately, there are scenarios where the cost per kilowatt hour could approach infinity.
If all goes well, the Toshiba 4S could be providing Galena with abundant power by about 2012. Not only would it supply all of the electricity that the village needs, but there would be enough low cost energy capacity left over to produce hydrogen from water and district heat from the waste heat released from the plant. Galena could experience a mini-boom as it becomes a hub of regional energy and innovation. If certain hurdles are not overcome, however, a large amount of money and time can be consumed without producing any new power capacity at all.
No, why should they be liable for the collateral damage? You get a new reactor, dammit, greedy bastards those customers... That's Mr. Mutant Customer to you, sir.
_________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
C'mon man, who're you gonna believe?
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:12 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Yeah, exactly, that says district heating to me.
Not many people are going to want one though, drop something like that into an existing community and there will be riots. The only way to deploy something like that is building a New Town out in the middle of nowhere (like Milton Keynes or something) so residence is conditional on acceptance of proximity to the technology. _________________ Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough.
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Quote:
But if you're one of the Silicon Valley multi-millionaires who built mansions in Idaho because you love fly-fishing, you may be in luck; just divert part of your trout stream to provide cooling water for the reactor. You'll never need to turn off that big plasma TV again, and even the fish will be happier in the warmer water.
He's an idiot. Trout will not be happier in warmer water. Trout need cold water. _________________ "The problems of today will not be solved by the same thinking that produced the problems in the first place." - Albert Einstein
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:14 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Male fertility is on a decline, so what we really don't need in our backyard is a nuclear facility, thank you very much. How are you going to guarantee no radioactivie isotopes escape from this power generator?
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:38 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
thor wrote:
Male fertility is on a decline, so what we really don't need in our backyard is a nuclear facility, thank you very much.
Well, it might be a solution to the population problem... _________________ "The problems of today will not be solved by the same thinking that produced the problems in the first place." - Albert Einstein
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 3:42 pm Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
efarmer's right brain says:
I think I will wait until you can get a smaller one at Lowe's on credit. My brother in law, Billy "gamma" Ray, is a wizard with things like this and he says he knows where we can borrow something he calls a dosimeter, he says it' like a timing light for tuning up your micronuke power plant. It says right in the owners manual that you have to call for a special truck whenyou throw one of these puupies away too, so be sure to read the whole manual. We've already decided, we're going to have a 24/7 barbecue with the waste heat, if the neighbors bring us at least a six pack of beer, they get to use the grill for nothing. Just wait until you sink your teeth into Billy "gamma" Ray's fabulous Chicken Roentgen, with baked beans, an luminous hominy.
efarmers left brain says:
If we are foolish enough to think of small nuclear plants as a reasonable, and scalable solution, then we should sit on our cold asses next to our prepared installation sites with dunce hats on and our pants down, just in case any monkeys need to scramble into the sky and give us air cover on short notice.
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:52 pm Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Twilight wrote:
Yeah, exactly, that says district heating to me.
Not many people are going to want one though, drop something like that into an existing community and there will be riots. The only way to deploy something like that is building a New Town out in the middle of nowhere (like Milton Keynes or something) so residence is conditional on acceptance of proximity to the technology.
Looking at how society is set up today, I'd say you're spot on.
However.....
In a post PO world my crystal ball envisions an extreme division between the haves and have nots. Thanks to the economic surplus generated by oil today we have things like a:
socialistic freeway system
socialistic electricity
socialistic education
socialistic healthcare (unless you're an American *wink*)
What happens in the future when government breaks down and socialism goes out the window? I'm not certain about portable nukes but I can definitely envision perhaps a small scale natural gas / or diesel electric plant reserved for a gated community of 100 rich families.
Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:31 pm Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
And once again, we are moving in the direction of first concentrating substances known to be lethal, and then distributing the concentrated version as far and wide as we possibly can. To irresponsible people. Who could care less what happens "next."
Every time we do this, it seems, we fail to learn the lesson:
If you spread poison around the biosphere, eventually it'll get ya.
Now class, can you think of any examples?
Mercury! Very good, Sally.
Arsenic! Excellent Tommy.
MTBE! Good one, Paul.
Perchlorate! Ruth, that's a big Roger!
Hexavalent Chromium! Sidney, very clever.
Lead! Correct, Joe!
CO2! Now Angie, that's debatable. You go outside and play for a while and think about it. Don't worry, it's nice and warm!
... _________________ 100% of the electricity needed for this post was generated by ME.
<p>
<A HREF="http://www.los-gatos.ca.us/davidbu/pedgen/green_virtual_gym.html">Posted from a Pedal Powered Computer</A>
Joined: Apr 05, 2005 Posts: 1658 Location: Springsteen Country (NJ)
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 12:51 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Ooo! Ooo! I got one... PCBs! _________________ Joe P. United Political Debate
"Only when the last tree is cut; only when the last river is polluted; only when the last fish is caught; only then will they realize that you cannot eat money." - Cree Indian Proverb
Joined: Apr 06, 2006 Posts: 3625 Location: 3 miles NW of Champoeg, Republic of Cascadia
Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2007 3:25 am Post subject: Re: A personal nuclear reactor? Not so fast!
Another hitch: the NRC will likely be demanding 24/7 security, meaning about minimum 15 armed security guys making say $20K/year (security doesn't always pay - armored car guys do very heavy work for which they don't earn jack). So that's another $300K/year that will go into your kw/h.
In an electrical shortage though who knows what people will demand and get. We spew toxins all day long as it is. _________________ Cogito, ergo non satis bibivi
C'mon man, who're you gonna believe?
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