US: pride or love?

Bas · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:44 pm Post subject: US: pride or love?

I had an interesting conversation tonite that went down to a philosophical interpretation of "pride".

I argued that pride in essence is something that you feel good about showing something off, which I thought and think is only really warranted when it comes to one's own achievements and maybe some when it comes to one's children.

I got as counter argument that pride is often a form of love; I'm proud of my wife was the argument. I didn't think it was a very strong argument but acknowledged that there is definately a border area there. However, I was mostly interested in this in a "national" sense, using America, Holland and nazi Germany as examples and pointing out that countries are just geographical areas in which you happen to be born and that pride in this sense is irrational while acknowledging that the love for that country (or area) that you know and has given you opportunities and freedoms is a natural thing.

ah, a bit of a rant, but I guess my Christmas messages to Americans on this board is:

Love your country but beware of pride.

Merry Christmas everybody Smile

Tanada · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

1, 2 and 4a.
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Bas · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

ah ok, I voted "love" to be able to see the results (the see results option seems to have been malfunctioning for a long time....)

Also, I forgot to say this, I feel love for my country and certain areas that I know best, but basically I'm not proud of my "country" or it's history. I love my freedoms here, and like I have said a couple of times before I'd defend my freedoms, and also the freedoms of other citizens before my country though they might be one and the same thing and sometimes the exact opposite.

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5103 Location: Oklahoma

I had to say "neither." A country, especially a big one like mine, is a political entity, and I don't feel emotionally attached to it. I do feel emotional attachment to certain places, including the town where I live, but not to political entities.
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wisconsin_cur · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

I can't separate myself, try as I my, from my love for the values of the revolution, as betrayed and forgotten as they have been.

Like any love we choose to emphasis certain things over the other to maintain that love. Not that there is not plenty to feel ashamed over or be outraged about.

Love is blind I guess. I love what was... what I hope can be again.

I am proud of those who continue to hold to those values that is america at the best. Those who persevere, innovate, and resist in a thousand symbolic but important ways. They are important because they are how we keep ourselves human. They are important because it is how we cling to the idea that individuals are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights...

...and not all of us sold those rights to the corporations, the 1.5 political parties, the talking heads, creditors or the Federal government.
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Bas · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

good point. But you gotta love the freedoms America has given you. Maybe it's an easier thing to answer in a small geographic area like Holland though we have 16 million people here and it's all pretty much disconnecting in a metropolitan way...

Anyway, I think you do love your country overall, the land...maybe not the politics and certainly not now but....You have a lot to be grateful for in the sense that America gave you a lot of opportunities and freedoms.

Ultimately though, these "national" borders are senseless and morally indefensible.

Call me what you want. (not you Shanny; )

wisconsin_cur · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:21 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

Fishman · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

Both, traveled to lots of countries, still kiss the ground (secretly) when I get back home.
Again you'll hear me, I guess rant, that the present restrictions on freedom are nothing compared to past situations, nothing compared to most countries.

Shannymara · Master Joined: Oct 04, 2004 Posts: 5103 Location: Oklahoma

Bas · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

The 7 deadly sins

#7 Pride

Heineken · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:47 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

I feel that nationalism is a major force for destruction, pain, and waste. It's highly unfortunate that humans organize themselves in this way politically.
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Bas · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:01 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

wisconsin_cur · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:07 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

Heineken · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

Here is what I feel about America: Sadness. Regret. Loss. Embarrassment. Outrage.

I feel that the values my dad fought for during WWII have been sold down the river---and sold cheap.

That pack of mercenary jackals on Capitol Hill and in the White House should be drawn and quartered. They are traitors, almost to the last man and woman. The few honest patriots among them (guys like Ron Paul, for instance) are drowned out.

The American experiment had its moment but now has failed. For a long time it has been failing, and now that process is complete. I am very doubtful that resurrection is possible.
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

Bas · Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2007 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: US: pride or love?

I've found that I'm inclined to speak proud of this little country (of it's flood defenses in this case) when I didn't plan to, nor agree with it; I guess Holland is quite a nationalistic country and I was raised with that sense around me and it's hard to get rid of.