How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Nothing new to us, but it's in the Small Town Papers News Service. Last three paragraphs of the article:
Quote:
These prospects are hard for us to face. A member of an informal Seattle reading club formed to investigate peak oil told a news reporter that several others have dropped out of the group. “Once people have assimilated the idea that peak oil is imminent, they start to go through the stages of grief, just like a loved one has died. All of a sudden there’s denial, and then bargaining, anger and despair, and finally there’s an acceptance. But that’s never a happy acceptance. It’s more pragmatic, but the depression is there.”
We don’t want to face these issues and we don’t need to, especially with such a large menu of distractions available to us. We can travel, build things, or just go shopping. Unfortunately, almost all these escapes are dependent upon oil, underlining the inescapable nature of our dilemma.
There are personal as well as institutional reasons for ignoring or denying global warming and peak oil. On January 10 the Pencil Warrior will discuss possible technological alternatives, why they won’t save us, and the only true solutions.
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
The day I learned about PO and that it is imminent was one of my happiest day. I finally knew that the consumerism will come to an end. The cheap chineese trash won' be seen anymore in stores around here. And most probably most of those big box stores will be gone, too. Life will finally return to "normal".
And with some luck I'm here to witness it all. YEAH !!!!
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:03 pm Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
dsula wrote:
The day I learned about PO and that it is imminent was one of my happiest day. I finally knew that the consumerism will come to an end. The cheap chineese trash won' be seen anymore in stores around here. And most probably most of those big box stores will be gone, too. Life will finally return to "normal".
And with some luck I'm here to witness it all. YEAH !!!!
Somewhat similar sentiment here. I considered putting this article in Psychology but what heck, its news in the "small town".
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 6:46 pm Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Andrew_S wrote:
dsula wrote:
The day I learned about PO and that it is imminent was one of my happiest day. I finally knew that the consumerism will come to an end. The cheap chineese trash won' be seen anymore in stores around here. And most probably most of those big box stores will be gone, too. Life will finally return to "normal".
And with some luck I'm here to witness it all. YEAH !!!!
Somewhat similar sentiment here. I considered putting this article in Psychology but what heck, its news in the "small town".
Haha. I don't think that I thought it then, but that's all I think about when I hear people bitching now. People who are so arrogant now will be reduced to sniveling piles of human flesh very soon. _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
mekrob wrote:
Andrew_S wrote:
dsula wrote:
The day I learned about PO and that it is imminent was one of my happiest day. I finally knew that the consumerism will come to an end. The cheap chineese trash won' be seen anymore in stores around here. And most probably most of those big box stores will be gone, too. Life will finally return to "normal".
And with some luck I'm here to witness it all. YEAH !!!!
Somewhat similar sentiment here. I considered putting this article in Psychology but what heck, its news in the "small town".
Haha. I don't think that I thought it then, but that's all I think about when I hear people bitching now. People who are so arrogant now will be reduced to sniveling piles of human flesh very soon.
What is the connection between people bitching and arrogant people ?
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:02 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
dsula wrote:
The day I learned about PO and that it is imminent was one of my happiest day. I finally knew that the consumerism will come to an end. The cheap chineese trash won' be seen anymore in stores around here. And most probably most of those big box stores will be gone, too. Life will finally return to "normal".
And with some luck I'm here to witness it all. YEAH !!!!
This - and some of the other responses here - are yet more evidence that many, if not most, peak oilers believe in peak oil not because they actually care about whether oil production is about to peak, but because they want it to peak. You don't actually care about how much oil is left in the ground, you simply want us to stop using it as a means to another end.
I'm reminded of people who go to church not because they actually believe or care about the religion itself, but because they like the people in the church, or the architecture of the church, or the rituals, or some other secondary (and shallow) reason.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6276 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:25 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Oil-Finder wrote:
This - and some of the other responses here - are yet more evidence that many, if not most, peak oilers believe in peak oil not because they actually care about whether oil production is about to peak, but because they want it to peak. You don't actually care about how much oil is left in the ground, you simply want us to stop using it as a means to another end.
You could only come to that conclusion because that's the conclusion you want to come to.
Only a tiny fraction of the posters on this site feel that the coming oil crunch is going to be a good thing. The vast majority of us are only too painfully aware of what life on this planet is going to be like as oil becomes ever more precious and expensive. We are very much aware of how the population chart curve follows the oil usage chart curve almost exactly.
We know what's going to happen when the oil usage curve plunges downward. We know the horror that awaits us in the future. Nobody who has a realistic grasp of the situation is looking forward to it. Your silly notion that most of us want to set our legions of energy slaves free is absurd. You apparently haven't read through many of the threads on this site in the two weeks or so since you registered. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Zardoz wrote:
Oil-Finder wrote:
This - and some of the other responses here - are yet more evidence that many, if not most, peak oilers believe in peak oil not because they actually care about whether oil production is about to peak, but because they want it to peak. You don't actually care about how much oil is left in the ground, you simply want us to stop using it as a means to another end.
You could only come to that conclusion because that's the conclusion you want to come to.
No, I come to that conclusion because I read those sentiments all over this board.
Zardoz wrote:
Only a tiny fraction of the posters on this site feel that the coming oil crunch is going to be a good thing. The vast majority of us are only too painfully aware of what life on this planet is going to be like as oil becomes ever more precious and expensive. We are very much aware of how the population chart curve follows the oil usage chart curve almost exactly.
We know what's going to happen when the oil usage curve plunges downward. We know the horror that awaits us in the future. Nobody who has a realistic grasp of the situation is looking forward to it. Your silly notion that most of us want to set our legions of energy slaves free is absurd. You apparently haven't read through many of the threads on this site in the two weeks or so since you registered.
I have no doubt there are some on this board who take a pessimistic view of peak oil and do not want it to happen. But my impression from reading the comments here is that the majority welcome peak oil, in one way or another. And yet another large contingent seems to take a pessimistic view, but they also seem to like this pessimistic view - e.g. "Hooray! Modern civilization is going to come to a screeching halt! I can't wait!"
I'm sorry, but that's what my own observations are.
Joined: Mar 09, 2007 Posts: 215 Location: No. Calif.
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Oil Finder wrote:
Quote:
I'm sorry, but that's what my own observations are.
Well, we are certainly amused by the prospects, to say the least. I always was fascinated by this song of Emerson, Lake and Palmer and now I know why:
Welcome back my friends to the show that never ends
We're so glad you could attend, come inside, come inside
There behind a glass stands a real blade of grass
Be careful as you pass,.move along, move along
Come inside, the show's about to start
Guaranteed to blow your head apart
Rest assured you'll get your money's worth
Greatest show in Heaven, Hell or Earth
You've got to see the show, it's a dynamo
You've got to see the show, it's rock and roll, oh
Right before your eyes see the laughter from the skies
And he laughs until he cries, then he dies, then he dies
Come inside, the show's about to start
Guaranteed to blow your head apart
You've got to see the show, it's a dynamo
You've got to see the show, it's rock and roll, oh
Soon the Gypsy Queen in a glaze of vaseline
Will perform on guillotine, what a scene, what a scene
Next upon the stand will you please extend a hand
To Alexander's Ragtime Band, Dixieland, Dixieland
Roll up, roll up, roll up
See the show
Performing on a stool we've a sight to make you drool
Seven virgins and a mule, keep it cool, keep it cool
We would like it to be known the exhibits that were shown
Were exclusively our own, all our own, all our own
Come and see the show, come and see the show
Come and see the show
See the show
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Oil-Finder wrote:
dsula wrote:
The day I learned about PO and that it is imminent was one of my happiest day. I finally knew that the consumerism will come to an end. The cheap chineese trash won' be seen anymore in stores around here. And most probably most of those big box stores will be gone, too. Life will finally return to "normal".
And with some luck I'm here to witness it all. YEAH !!!!
This - and some of the other responses here - are yet more evidence that many, if not most, peak oilers believe in peak oil not because they actually care about whether oil production is about to peak, but because they want it to peak. You don't actually care about how much oil is left in the ground, you simply want us to stop using it as a means to another end.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The oil age is coming to an end deal with it. Optimist pessimist whatever whats your plan B? Thats what counts. (no I don't particularly care what your plan B is either just suggesting you should have one, just in case)
Your whining sobbing type post is utterly pathetic.
"Oh why don't they believe the same thing as I do, sob, sob, sob" grow up. _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 2:23 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
^
As I've said in other posts, I actually don't mind if people come right out and say they don't want us to use more oil. I've got no problem with that. But I find it dishonest to use peak oil as a guise for some other belief, such as wanting modern civilization to come crashing to a halt, or wanting us to stop polluting the air, etc.
The folks who want civilization to come crashing to a halt should just say so. They don't actually care how much oil is left in the ground, they just hope we can never get to it all because that would be a good impetus for civilization to come crashing to a halt. Since they don't actually care about how much oil is left in the ground, why do they care about peak oil? It's akin to a person who goes to church but does not actually care about the religion.
Joined: Aug 23, 2007 Posts: 52 Location: SE Michigan
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Oil-Finder wrote:
^
As I've said in other posts, I actually don't mind if people come right out and say they don't want us to use more oil. I've got no problem with that. But I find it dishonest to use peak oil as a guise for some other belief, such as wanting modern civilization to come crashing to a halt, or wanting us to stop polluting the air, etc.
The folks who want civilization to come crashing to a halt should just say so. They don't actually care how much oil is left in the ground, they just hope we can never get to it all because that would be a good impetus for civilization to come crashing to a halt. Since they don't actually care about how much oil is left in the ground, why do they care about peak oil? It's akin to a person who goes to church but does not actually care about the religion.
I knew our way of life based infinite growth was a problem long before I learned of PO. I was constantly depressed and disgusted by the exponential growth in destruction I saw around me over the years. I already knew the future was losing it's value for my son and future generations.
So, awareness of PO putting an end to this madness does have a small silver lining for people like me, but this comes at a great cost. I was completely flabbergasted when I learned how dependent the green revolution was on fossil fuels. Now the new picture has us (and certainly our kids) in an overshoot situation.
So it's kinda like PO is a cure for an ill, but that ill is like a cancer and the cure will be like chemotherapy.....or die-off. It's not nice at all being painted into a corner with the rest of humanity by a die-off scenario. But we must live for the moment and have a gallows sense of humor about things while preparing for what we can.
I do look forward to walking through the woods in the spring and realising for the first time in my life that I may not have to be depressed about the possibility of the woods I frequent becoming shopping center parking lots or mcmansion subdivisions until they are no more.
A balance will be achieved and for that I am grateful, but I do not relish the human suffering that must result. This really has been a big party on the way to overshoot. If a soft landing allows, I will prefer walking in the woods and doing work, where I actually help produce something useful in this country, to the long Ponzi funded party that has made us weak, fat and whiny and soiled our nest.
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:22 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
Oil-Finder wrote:
The folks who want civilization to come crashing to a halt should just say so.
I don't want civilization to come to a crashing halt. But does that mean I have to like all aspects of it, especially of the last few decades?
Also, I'm not convinced that civilization will end - I doubt whether it will in many parts of the world, but of course there will be big changes.
Oil-Finder wrote:
They don't actually care how much oil is left in the ground, they just hope we can never get to it all because that would be a good impetus for civilization to come crashing to a halt. Since they don't actually care about how much oil is left in the ground, why do they care about peak oil? It's akin to a person who goes to church but does not actually care about the religion.
I've had 5 years being very aware of peak oil. My main concern has been when does it happen? Over that time I've generally said to myself probably between now and 2012 maybe 2013. This year it's increasingly beginning to look like about now, a little earlier than I expected, but we'll have to see.
In your analogy I suppose that's the "religion" part.
The ramifications of declining oil production when it comes are, of course, enormous, and it's that which makes this site so interesting to me. That's maybe the "social" part of your analogy. In practice it is the practical considerations of the latter part which are the most important - this is where people can make a difference to themselves if they plan.
Like I said I don't like everything about modern "civilization" and rabid consumerism is one, as I agreed with the poster earlier.
Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Denial Of Energy Crisis Is A Conditioned Response
tecumseh wrote:
So, awareness of PO putting an end to this madness does have a small silver lining for people like me, but this comes at a great cost. I was completely flabbergasted when I learned how dependent the green revolution was on fossil fuels. Now the new picture has us (and certainly our kids) in an overshoot situation.
So it's kinda like PO is a cure for an ill, but that ill is like a cancer and the cure will be like chemotherapy.....or die-off. It's not nice at all being painted into a corner with the rest of humanity by a die-off scenario. But we must live for the moment and have a gallows sense of humor about things while preparing for what we can.
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I considered putting this article in Psychology but what heck, its news in the "small town".
