| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
dorlomin
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Posts: 1117
|
 Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
  |
|
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7201887.stm
| Quote: | | The designers of the MS Beluga Skysails say the computer-controlled kite, measuring 160sq m (1,722sq ft), could cut fuel consumption by as much as 20%. |
A novel variation on sailing, using a high altitude kite to pull along a MV reducing its fuel consumption.
A slight touch of mundane genius. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rambo
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 161
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Kite boat |
|
|
What about high winds and bad weather?
I don't think this will ever catch on. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lorenzo
Fission
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 2210
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Giant kite to pull ship across the Atlantic |
|
|
{thread merged by emersonbiggins}
From Germany to Venezuela:
| Quote: |
Kite to pull ship across Atlantic
The world's first commercial cargo ship partially powered by a giant kite is setting sail from Germany to Venezuela.
The designers of the MS Beluga Skysails say the computer-controlled kite, measuring 160sq m (1,722sq ft), could cut fuel consumption by as much as 20%.
They also hope the state-of-the-art kite will help reduce carbon dioxide emissions, as it tugs the ship.
Fuel burnt by ships accounts for 4% of global CO2 emissions - twice as much as the aviation industry produces.
The kite sail will help reduce annual fuel costs by 10-35%. Reduced fuel also means fewer harmful carbon emissions
The large towing kite resembles a paraglider and is shaped like an aircraft wing, to enable it to take advantage of different wind directions
It operates at 100-300m above surface level - much higher than a normal sailing craft - where winds are stronger and more stable
The kite can be used in winds of between 12-74km/h (7-40 knots) and not just when the wind is blowing directly from behind the ship
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7201887.stm
|
Proud to say I was the first to discover SkySails four years back, when they were just an idea. Everybody here and elsewhere laughed at it. Now they're doing it.
This seems to be one of those technologies that can be taken up by a large number of ships, very fast. No Hirsch slowness in this case.
How much fuel does the world's merchant fleet consume?
Yet Another of the Many Beginnings has Just Arrived!
_________________
The Beginning is Near! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
asdar
Tar Sands
Joined: Oct 06, 2006
Posts: 37
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Kite boat |
|
|
| I think at $2,000/day that there's a better than even chance it'll take off. Two trips pays off the kite. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Zardoz
Expert
Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 6662
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Giant kite to pull ship across the Atlantic |
|
|
Fine. It'll be interesting to get some data on the fuel consumption of that ship over the next couple of years, and see how much the kite actually saves. Theoretical savings are one thing, but let's see what it does in actual operation.
As an old sailor from way back, take my word for it that the wind seldom behaves just as you want it to.
_________________
"Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Twilight
Expert
Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 3076
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| lorenzo wrote: | | Proud to say I was the first to discover SkySails four years back, when they were just an idea. Everybody here and elsewhere laughed at it. Now they're doing it. |
Sails on modern tankers were tried long before this, was it the 80s? Correct me if I am wrong. I think it was the Japanese who were keen to try it after the shocks. They were of the fixed variety though, they tried automation too, but the savings were unpredictable. Companies hate stuff they can't budget for, and not knowing your budget in transport to the last percent can be very expensive. Until everyone abandons JIT of course. Which, looking at the last generation of supply chain progress... 
But I knew it was feasible a long time ago, I clearly remember telling people in 2002 it was an idea that needed looking at again. It was only ever a question of overcoming people's stupidity and accumulating experience. We could have been saving some fuel in the 90s and learning. So here we are, starting much later than we could have.
Better late than never? I don't know. We are revisiting ideas that have been lying on shelves for a generation. That is a success that obscures real failure.
_________________
Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
IslandCrow
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 875
Location: Finland
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| Twilight wrote: | | Until everyone abandons JIT of course. |
The beauty of the concept is that, unlike the old sailing ships, the timing of the crossing is not much affected by the wind used, so JIT can continue for a little longer. But I agree that this could lead to 'interesting' pricing policies.
It seems to be a good step on the path to mitigating the effect of oil depletio. I hope it works in practice, but the estimate is that on average it will only reduce oil consumption by 20%. To get beyond that 20% in the face of declining fuel supplies there seem to be two choices: a) trips take longer, by relying on the wind more than now b) fewer trips are taken. Either choice would mean that less goods can be transported.
_________________
We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ferretlover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 3859
Location: Minniesotuh
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
I want to see what they will come up with for aircraft....
_________________
"RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Twilight
Expert
Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 3076
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| Ferretlover wrote: | | I want to see what they will come up with for aircraft.... |
Haven't you heard?
_________________
Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 4377
Location: Boston Suburbs
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| The analog in aircraft would be zeppelins. Unfortunately the world is running out of helium so unless people want to try hydrogen again, zeppelins will never be big again. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lanthanide
Heavy Crude
Joined: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 129
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| IslandCrow wrote: | | To get beyond that 20% in the face of declining fuel supplies there seem to be two choices: a) trips take longer, by relying on the wind more than now |
If oil supplies drop off like people are predicting they will (at some point), what are all the existing oil tankers going to be doing? I'm sure they can be converted to take other supplies around. So even if the trips take longer, if you scale up the size of the fleet making the trips, the supply of goods can stay constant. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Twilight
Expert
Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 3076
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| Lanthanide wrote: | | If oil supplies drop off like people are predicting they will (at some point), what are all the existing oil tankers going to be doing? I'm sure they can be converted to take other supplies around. |
No, they will be rusting. Converting tankers to carry anything else is prohibitively expensive. I have heard it done with smaller product tankers that ply inland waterways, but ocean-going crude carriers, no way. Always cheaper to build new.
_________________
Volatility. When life isn't exciting enough. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tanada
Expert
Joined: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 3867
Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| Twilight wrote: | | Lanthanide wrote: | | If oil supplies drop off like people are predicting they will (at some point), what are all the existing oil tankers going to be doing? I'm sure they can be converted to take other supplies around. |
No, they will be rusting. Converting tankers to carry anything else is prohibitively expensive. I have heard it done with smaller product tankers that ply inland waterways, but ocean-going crude carriers, no way. Always cheaper to build new. |
Not that I see it as being likely but you should be aware that the first generation of intermodal freighters i.e. Cargo Container ships were actually converted tanker ships.
_________________
Always appeal to a man's enlightened self interest, you can trust him to look out for himself honestly, It's when you appeal to his Honor or the Common Good that he stops paying attention. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
zoidberg
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 511
Location: Winnipeg
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| Twilight wrote: | | lorenzo wrote: | | Proud to say I was the first to discover SkySails four years back, when they were just an idea. Everybody here and elsewhere laughed at it. Now they're doing it. |
Sails on modern tankers were tried long before this, was it the 80s? Correct me if I am wrong. I think it was the Japanese who were keen to try it after the shocks. They were of the fixed variety though, they tried automation too, but the savings were unpredictable. Companies hate stuff they can't budget for, and not knowing your budget in transport to the last percent can be very expensive. Until everyone abandons JIT of course. Which, looking at the last generation of supply chain progress...
But I knew it was feasible a long time ago, I clearly remember telling people in 2002 it was an idea that needed looking at again. It was only ever a question of overcoming people's stupidity and accumulating experience. We could have been saving some fuel in the 90s and learning. So here we are, starting much later than we could have.
Better late than never? I don't know. We are revisiting ideas that have been lying on shelves for a generation. That is a success that obscures real failure. |
Perhaps it was awaiting higher fuel costs to compete against, faster computers to control the kites more efficiently, better materials to make them.
The price crash in the mid 80's killed a lot of good ideas. I think it should just be accepted we're going to waste most of the fossil fuels. Theres probably a lesson in that somewhere, but damned if I can figure it out. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2879
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
|
| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
|
|
| mos6507 wrote: | | The analog in aircraft would be zeppelins. Unfortunately the world is running out of helium so unless people want to try hydrogen again, zeppelins will never be big again. |
Helium is just another name for alpha radiation... 
_________________
Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
