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dorlomin
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Aug 05, 2007
Posts: 1061
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 Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7201887.stm
| Quote: | | The designers of the MS Beluga Skysails say the computer-controlled kite, measuring 160sq m (1,722sq ft), could cut fuel consumption by as much as 20%. |
A novel variation on sailing, using a high altitude kite to pull along a MV reducing its fuel consumption.
A slight touch of mundane genius. |
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Rambo
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jan 03, 2006
Posts: 161
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Kite boat |
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What about high winds and bad weather?
I don't think this will ever catch on. |
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lorenzo
Fission
Joined: Jan 01, 2005
Posts: 2158
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: Giant kite to pull ship across the Atlantic |
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{thread merged by emersonbiggins}
From Germany to Venezuela:
| Quote: |
Kite to pull ship across Atlantic
The world's first commercial cargo ship partially powered by a giant kite is setting sail from Germany to Venezuela.
The designers of the MS Beluga Skysails say the computer-controlled kite, measuring 160sq m (1,722sq ft), could cut fuel consumption by as much as 20%.
They also hope the state-of-the-art kite will help reduce carbon dioxide emissions, as it tugs the ship.
Fuel burnt by ships accounts for 4% of global CO2 emissions - twice as much as the aviation industry produces.
The kite sail will help reduce annual fuel costs by 10-35%. Reduced fuel also means fewer harmful carbon emissions
The large towing kite resembles a paraglider and is shaped like an aircraft wing, to enable it to take advantage of different wind directions
It operates at 100-300m above surface level - much higher than a normal sailing craft - where winds are stronger and more stable
The kite can be used in winds of between 12-74km/h (7-40 knots) and not just when the wind is blowing directly from behind the ship
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7201887.stm
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Proud to say I was the first to discover SkySails four years back, when they were just an idea. Everybody here and elsewhere laughed at it. Now they're doing it.
This seems to be one of those technologies that can be taken up by a large number of ships, very fast. No Hirsch slowness in this case.
How much fuel does the world's merchant fleet consume?
Yet Another of the Many Beginnings has Just Arrived!
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asdar
Tar Sands
Joined: Oct 06, 2006
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: Re: Kite boat |
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| I think at $2,000/day that there's a better than even chance it'll take off. Two trips pays off the kite. |
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Zardoz
Expert
Joined: Dec 02, 2005
Posts: 6382
Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Giant kite to pull ship across the Atlantic |
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Fine. It'll be interesting to get some data on the fuel consumption of that ship over the next couple of years, and see how much the kite actually saves. Theoretical savings are one thing, but let's see what it does in actual operation.
As an old sailor from way back, take my word for it that the wind seldom behaves just as you want it to.
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Twilight
Expert
Joined: Mar 02, 2007
Posts: 2971
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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| lorenzo wrote: | | Proud to say I was the first to discover SkySails four years back, when they were just an idea. Everybody here and elsewhere laughed at it. Now they're doing it. |
Sails on modern tankers were tried long before this, was it the 80s? Correct me if I am wrong. I think it was the Japanese who were keen to try it after the shocks. They were of the fixed variety though, they tried automation too, but the savings were unpredictable. Companies hate stuff they can't budget for, and not knowing your budget in transport to the last percent can be very expensive. Until everyone abandons JIT of course. Which, looking at the last generation of supply chain progress... 
But I knew it was feasible a long time ago, I clearly remember telling people in 2002 it was an idea that needed looking at again. It was only ever a question of overcoming people's stupidity and accumulating experience. We could have been saving some fuel in the 90s and learning. So here we are, starting much later than we could have.
Better late than never? I don't know. We are revisiting ideas that have been lying on shelves for a generation. That is a success that obscures real failure.
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IslandCrow
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 823
Location: Finland
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:38 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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| Twilight wrote: | | Until everyone abandons JIT of course. |
The beauty of the concept is that, unlike the old sailing ships, the timing of the crossing is not much affected by the wind used, so JIT can continue for a little longer. But I agree that this could lead to 'interesting' pricing policies.
It seems to be a good step on the path to mitigating the effect of oil depletio. I hope it works in practice, but the estimate is that on average it will only reduce oil consumption by 20%. To get beyond that 20% in the face of declining fuel supplies there seem to be two choices: a) trips take longer, by relying on the wind more than now b) fewer trips are taken. Either choice would mean that less goods can be transported.
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Ferretlover
Moderator
Joined: Jun 13, 2007
Posts: 3580
Location: Minniesotuh
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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I want to see what they will come up with for aircraft....
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Twilight
Expert
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 3627
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:51 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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| The analog in aircraft would be zeppelins. Unfortunately the world is running out of helium so unless people want to try hydrogen again, zeppelins will never be big again. |
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Lanthanide
Heavy Crude
Joined: Nov 24, 2007
Posts: 117
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:12 am Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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| IslandCrow wrote: | | To get beyond that 20% in the face of declining fuel supplies there seem to be two choices: a) trips take longer, by relying on the wind more than now |
If oil supplies drop off like people are predicting they will (at some point), what are all the existing oil tankers going to be doing? I'm sure they can be converted to take other supplies around. So even if the trips take longer, if you scale up the size of the fleet making the trips, the supply of goods can stay constant. |
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Twilight
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Tanada
Expert
Joined: Apr 28, 2005
Posts: 3622
Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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| Twilight wrote: | | Lanthanide wrote: | | If oil supplies drop off like people are predicting they will (at some point), what are all the existing oil tankers going to be doing? I'm sure they can be converted to take other supplies around. |
No, they will be rusting. Converting tankers to carry anything else is prohibitively expensive. I have heard it done with smaller product tankers that ply inland waterways, but ocean-going crude carriers, no way. Always cheaper to build new. |
Not that I see it as being likely but you should be aware that the first generation of intermodal freighters i.e. Cargo Container ships were actually converted tanker ships.
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zoidberg
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Feb 23, 2005
Posts: 501
Location: Winnipeg
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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| Twilight wrote: | | lorenzo wrote: | | Proud to say I was the first to discover SkySails four years back, when they were just an idea. Everybody here and elsewhere laughed at it. Now they're doing it. |
Sails on modern tankers were tried long before this, was it the 80s? Correct me if I am wrong. I think it was the Japanese who were keen to try it after the shocks. They were of the fixed variety though, they tried automation too, but the savings were unpredictable. Companies hate stuff they can't budget for, and not knowing your budget in transport to the last percent can be very expensive. Until everyone abandons JIT of course. Which, looking at the last generation of supply chain progress...
But I knew it was feasible a long time ago, I clearly remember telling people in 2002 it was an idea that needed looking at again. It was only ever a question of overcoming people's stupidity and accumulating experience. We could have been saving some fuel in the 90s and learning. So here we are, starting much later than we could have.
Better late than never? I don't know. We are revisiting ideas that have been lying on shelves for a generation. That is a success that obscures real failure. |
Perhaps it was awaiting higher fuel costs to compete against, faster computers to control the kites more efficiently, better materials to make them.
The price crash in the mid 80's killed a lot of good ideas. I think it should just be accepted we're going to waste most of the fossil fuels. Theres probably a lesson in that somewhere, but damned if I can figure it out. |
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Starvid
Fission
Joined: Feb 20, 2005
Posts: 2778
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Kite to pull ship across Atlantic |
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| mos6507 wrote: | | The analog in aircraft would be zeppelins. Unfortunately the world is running out of helium so unless people want to try hydrogen again, zeppelins will never be big again. |
Helium is just another name for alpha radiation... 
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