We're not living in the US so I would like to know if it is something what you are experiencing in your daily live? Neighbors must leave their home, or whole suburbs going down or vacant houses?
Are new families moving in or do the houses just stay vacant?
The people who are moving out must live somewhere, so they must rent somewhere, hence there shouldn't be vacant houses?
The noisy, dusty camp sprang up in July with 20 residents and now numbers 200 people, including several children, growing as this region east of Los Angeles has been hit by the U.S. housing crisis.
The unravelling of the region known as the Inland Empire reads like a 21st century version of "The Grapes of Wrath," John Steinbeck's novel about families driven from their lands by the Great Depression.
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
alokin, the people went back to where they lived before they bought the house.
Except for the cities with falling populations, much of the country is coming off a residential construction boom the likes of which I have never seen. That is why houses are sitting empty: we have lots of houses and not enough people to live in them. Lots of people have decided to make do with rental properties until house prices fall back to their historical norms. As such, the builders have stopped building so many houses, but economists have calculated that even if all construction halted tomorrow, which it has not, it would take almost a year to sell off all the empty houses. And that is ignoring the glaring vacancies in many rental markets.
Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
With the dubious quality of the ticky tacky crapboard houses built during the boom. Most of those pieces of crap will fall apart or be in need of substantial repairs before they can be auctioned off. It will be comedy gold watching the banksters when they realize their repoed houses are losing value by the hour .)
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1091 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
I live in the South Bay area of Los Angeles. The upper end housing($800,000) hasn't slowed at all. The lower end housing($800,000 and below) has slowed quite a bit. The areas of Los Angeles most hurt are the areas in the surrounding mountains and out east where they were building houses in the desert left and right. Those houses are going down in value by 20-30% because that is the only areas in Los Angeles where there are new homes, way tooooo many new homes.
Just like everything in life, the poorest get hit the hardest.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Last edited by joeltrout on Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
mos6507 wrote:
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear. These jerks were driving the cost of homes up. They deserve what they get.
yes and no
Not everybody was a cold and calculating financial chess-master. There were lots of people who were just plain dumb and stupid. They listened to their real estate agents SCARE them into buying a home.
real estate agent: "If you don't buy a home NOW, you'll never be able to afford a home in the future because the price will forever go up beyond your reach."
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:21 am Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
I don't quite understand these "tent cities"... I guess the need for social interaction is pretty strong, but if I were forced to live in a tent I'd do it in some out-of-the-way area in the wilderness that lines the major highways of my city (Atlanta) so I could have relatively easy access to supplies (within an hour's walk) but not have to deal with desperate strangers, especially with my 3-year old in tow...
Actually, better yet, I'd just "occupy" one of the abandoned houses in my neighborhood... is the bank that owns it really going to complain that I'm in there keeping it up instead of letting it falling into disrepair or crackhouse-edness?
Joined: Mar 07, 2007 Posts: 321 Location: Holland, United Kingdom (of the seven Netherlands)
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
jeezlouise wrote:
Actually, better yet, I'd just "occupy" one of the abandoned houses in my neighborhood... is the bank that owns it really going to complain that I'm in there keeping it up instead of letting it falling into disrepair or crackhouse-edness?
We have laws about that in the Netherlands. If a building is empty for more than a year, anyone may occupy it. This forces building owners to find someone to live in it. You can rent such a house for € 5-100 a month. The main downside is that they can tell you to leave with a few weeks notice. And they don't have to repair anything if it is broken.
Joined: May 22, 2004 Posts: 1416 Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
I could hazard to guess why people live in tent cities as opposed to alone in the woods.
The first thing is probably security from the criminal types. If you are alone then you're vulnerable. Second is security from the official types. Yes as a group you attract more attention but once there is a precedent that the officialdom tolerates the tents for a while, people feel some security investing in that location. If you go and plop your tent just anywhere, you never know if the officialdom might come along and confiscate it as soon as a neighbour notices it. The third posibility is that the location is a good one with multiple services available. If there isn't a source of clean water nearby it is very hard to live out in the forest. _________________ Biofuels: The "What else we got to burn?" answer to peak oil.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
jeezlouise wrote:
I don't quite understand these "tent cities"... I guess the need for social interaction is pretty strong, but if I were forced to live in a tent I'd do it in some out-of-the-way area in the wilderness that lines the major highways of my city (Atlanta) so I could have relatively easy access to supplies (within an hour's walk) but not have to deal with desperate strangers, especially with my 3-year old in tow...
It's tempting to bug out initially, such as when people are starving...
But long term, if there are desperate strangers everywhere there's a lot to be said for staying in a group. Think about it this way, if you're on the outskirts (only an hours walk), if you leave to get supplies or work, a bunch of teenagers/thugs will probably raid your camp and destroy or steal everything.
But if you're camped in a group and need to go to work, need babysitting, there will be elders/friends to look after the camp and raiding teenagers/theft will be less of a problem. Also your personal security at night will be better. And resources like cookstoves, a biosand water purifier and tents can be shared as needed...
Over all, camps form because they provide safety. And when authorities move in, they may be more likely to negotiate getting people to move on instead of arresting everyone which is more difficult. (Or at least you might get warning before they bulldoze your hut...) On the other hand arresting a single camper and taking their child away is very easy.
So from many angles living in a camp is like living in a small tribe, it can provide the security and stability that families need. That's there appeal. And when people have nothing else, at least they have each other and whatever kindnesses they can do for their each other...
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
cube wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear. These jerks were driving the cost of homes up. They deserve what they get.
yes and no
Not everybody was a cold and calculating financial chess-master. There were lots of people who were just plain dumb and stupid. They listened to their real estate agents SCARE them into buying a home.
real estate agent: "If you don't buy a home NOW, you'll never be able to afford a home in the future because the price will forever go up beyond your reach."
yes and no.
there were also a host of new financial securities that allowed a new population of investors to fund mortgages. if there's a flood of investment capital available, it's going to find a market.
unfortunately, at the same time those securities allowed the loan originators to write the loans without being on the hook for the default risk. when you write a contract, each party is supposed to have an interest in the honesty and viability of the other party. if the loan originator can just unload the loan and collect the markup, where's the incentive to deny the loan?
of course people seeking a loan are going to be optimistic about the viability of their plans for the money, whether they are starting a business or buying a house. it's up to person handing out the loan to judge whether that optimism is justified. since in these cases, that person had no incentive to deny the loan, it went through.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
cube wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear. These jerks were driving the cost of homes up. They deserve what they get.
Not everybody was a cold and calculating financial chess-master. There were lots of people who were just plain dumb and stupid.
If they got scammed, and some undoubtedly did, they can try to prove it. But if they signed a contract without researching the economy and the market, and reading and understanding the terms and conditions, and getting a lawyer to check it, they are not entitled to sympathy from whatever non-stupid and lucky people survived the immediate fallout.
Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: Re: end of suburbia?
Twilight wrote:
cube wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear. These jerks were driving the cost of homes up. They deserve what they get.
Not everybody was a cold and calculating financial chess-master. There were lots of people who were just plain dumb and stupid.
If they got scammed, and some undoubtedly did, they can try to prove it. But if they signed a contract without researching the economy and the market, and reading and understanding the terms and conditions, and getting a lawyer to check it, they are not entitled to sympathy from whatever non-stupid and lucky people survived the immediate fallout.
Tent cities - agreed, people go to where the water is, and there is safety in numbers.
really, this is just like an introductory broker bringing 2 sides together. but ultimately it is up to the 2 sides of the legal doc to know what they are signing. the broker is only an intermediary. seriously folks, this is absurd to blame the broker who is paid on volume and not quality. this was the worst case of outsourcing. the takers deserve to lose their homes. the lenders deserve their losses. the brokers are now unemployed. AND? besides pointing fingers what do you suggest?
I agree misery loves company! safety in numbers! and all the reasons the troubled prefer to live in tent cities. but after several generations of learned helplessness do you really expect them to strike out on their own? even Steinbecks's Okies traveled in groups for many reasons!
I saw a dog run over today in Turkey. I could not interest anyone to help and I had to go to a meeting. but I did get someone to call the police to go back and check that the dog was dead, but not still suffering. poor FCKr!... the driver did not even stop!
oh ya, expect more man's inhumanity to man as we are consumed by our own problems to notice those of others lying in the ditch.... _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
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