Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
There is the black/white and male/female and north/south dualities in this thing for sure. The one I find interesting is the future / past duality. My boomer generation has been the top tier consumer predator in the history of civilization. It is shameless and remorseless. The entirety of what came before us, and what is to come in the future, is simply all for us right now. We can have it all, on credit, by force, by leverage, by any means that it takes.
If this comes through clear and cleanly to all the young people who
are aware and participating, they are not going to wait for our cool
60's folks who now run Wall Street, and Madison Avenue, and
the Hedge Funds, and the Corporations, and the big media outlets for instructions on what to buy or borrow to make themselves acceptable in the eyes of the God of Greed. They are going to polarize up and fight the selfish and ugly people who are borrowing their future to fatten their big asses, and plainly content to leave them hanging in the winds of desolation left by the big Boomer
fiesta blowout.
If we keep screwing our children out of their future they are going to have to rise up against us and fight. Like our generation thought they were doing with music and rhetoric before Ronnie hosed us down with borrowed bucks and our butts started filling out.
While we are tracking her and him and us and them we are getting ready for the real knock down and drag out: us and ours.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
I believe Obama voted against the war, Namenick. However, when he's "read in" he might change his tune. That is unlikely, though, as the elections will be stolen...again. McCain'll get it, because he's by far the most fire breathing war monger among them. I mean, this nut case isn't going to stop at anything, including tactical nukes...and that's what the Pnac'ers want.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
efarmer wrote:
There is the black/white and male/female and north/south dualities in this thing for sure. The one I find interesting is the future / past duality. My boomer generation has been the top tier consumer predator in the history of civilization. It is shameless and remorseless. The entirety of what came before us, and what is to come in the future, is simply all for us right now. We can have it all, on credit, by force, by leverage, by any means that it takes.
If this comes through clear and cleanly to all the young people who
are aware and participating, they are not going to wait for our cool
60's folks who now run Wall Street, and Madison Avenue, and
the Hedge Funds, and the Corporations, and the big media outlets for instructions on what to buy or borrow to make themselves acceptable in the eyes of the God of Greed. They are going to polarize up and fight the selfish and ugly people who are borrowing their future to fatten their big asses, and plainly content to leave them hanging in the winds of desolation left by the big Boomer
fiesta blowout.
If we keep screwing our children out of their future they are going to have to rise up against us and fight. Like our generation thought they were doing with music and rhetoric before Ronnie hosed us down with borrowed bucks and our butts started filling out.
While we are tracking her and him and us and them we are getting ready for the real knock down and drag out: us and ours.
JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, all took bullets because they essentially tried to reduce the threat of incipient fascism in the U.S. Had they not been killed your country would look a lot like a European social democracy. It's not all a cultural demographic problem.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
efarmer knows where it's at! The only thing I can add is that some of the presidential hopefuls are pretending that they will end the Iraq war and that's only to buy them the presidency. Young people are dumbed down enough to believe them and I predict that they will come out enmass, along with blacks, to elect Obama. Only to see the status quo continue. That's if Obama makes it of course. If Hilary makes it, it will be pretty close to the same because they're going to vote for a Dem because they have been taken in to believe that Dem. means ending the war. Silly people.
Threadbear- Did Obama actually vote against the war or did he not have an opportunity to vote? I'm a little confused on that and I'm asking instead of going to the trouble of finding out myself. Fully aware what that means of course. In any event it's probably worth clearing it up just in case there are others who are confused too. Oh, and I should have mentioned, I wouldn't bet much money against McCain winning as I have seen how they can cheat so easily. However there's little at stake now between McCain and any other so I think there's less chance of it happening. The real damage was done with Bush getting in to start with, in comparison to any difference in any of them now.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
Yes Threadbear I know there are other factors. But I have had that rant bottled up within myself for a long time. The image of a spoiled
brat sitting on the sofa and wondering what forces of the universe
have colluded and conspired to keep him from getting what he wants
right now.
On a lighter note, I remember a civics class when I was a kid where
during a debate, one guy lost it and hollered to another:
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
efarmer wrote:
Quote:
On a lighter note, I remember a civics class when I was a kid where
during a debate, one guy lost it and hollered to another:
"You should be shot, you rotten fascist!"
Must have been an honest guy! But tell me truthfully now; how many Americans would you say during the coldwar, would have liked to see all commies shot, including their women and children? My impression is that it was a large majority and I'm not really sure that it's not pretty much the same now as regards Russians.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
Namenick, my experience of the cold war is largely that of living in the
middle of the USA and knowing very little about the Russians or Chinese people. We simply knew that we had all built marvelous
ballistic missiles that could annihilate each other without distinction
or mercy and that we competed incessantly to make them better.
The bloodlust you allude to is usually more of a trait of people
who have fought each other and deeply hate one another.
In the case of the Cold War, we assumed a lot and knew very
little about each other. I am certain Americans do not want to see
people shot, including women and children, so what is your point
exactly?
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
efarmer wrote:
Namenick, my experience of the cold war is largely that of living in the
middle of the USA and knowing very little about the Russians or Chinese people. We simply knew that we had all built marvelous
ballistic missiles that could annihilate each other without distinction
or mercy and that we competed incessantly to make them better.
The bloodlust you allude to is usually more of a trait of people
who have fought each other and deeply hate one another.
In the case of the Cold War, we assumed a lot and knew very
little about each other. I am certain Americans do not want to see
people shot, including women and children, so what is your point
exactly?
More paranoia than blood lust. I was raised in Canada and taught to dislike Communists and to think of their system as one that didn't and couldn't work. We weren't paranoid of them, though. That extreme fear seemed to be part of a well orchestrated plan by fascist-lite forces that manipulated American deep politics, post war. During the McCarthy era this triumph of fascism over the perceived threat of Communism was more overt.
The similarity between our modern Nazis and the European brand during the war, are mainly associative, but there are some fairly obvious linear links, as well.
The Clintons are desperately trying to muddy the waters on this one. Bill Clinton is a bald faced liar. There's only one person I probably loathe more than G. Bush, and it's this scum sucking bottom feeder.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4542 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
And in Maine, a state that I thought was up in the air but probably leaning towards Hillary, Obama comes out ahead by 18 point!
They can't rig the nomination process against Obama if he keeps winning landslides. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Obama's record since taking office has been nearly identical to Hillary's.
Obama's claim to have opposed the war is based on public statements he claims to have made at the time. There is little or no documentation of this, other than a recording of him made making this alleged statement at some later time:
Obama has been publicly against the war, and has made this the main differentiator between himself and Hillary. Although he can conveniently claim otherwise, there is no real telling how he would have actually voted, with his career on the line, a year after 9-11.
After Saturday's results and a split decision in last week's "Super Tuesday" contests, Clinton shook up her campaign Sunday by replacing campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle with a longtime adviser Maggie Williams, her campaign announced Sunday.
Advisers also sought to lower expectations for this month's remaining Democratic contests, which are expected to favor Obama, to focus on a larger cache of delegates up for grabs in March.
"Although the next several states that hold nominating contests this month are more favorable to the Obama campaign, we will continue to compete in them and hope to secure as many delegates as we can before the race turns to Ohio, Texas and Pennsylvania," read a statement from Clinton's campaign.
_________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
efarmer wrote:
Namenick, my experience of the cold war is largely that of living in the
middle of the USA and knowing very little about the Russians or Chinese people. We simply knew that we had all built marvelous
ballistic missiles that could annihilate each other without distinction
or mercy and that we competed incessantly to make them better.
The bloodlust you allude to is usually more of a trait of people
who have fought each other and deeply hate one another.
In the case of the Cold War, we assumed a lot and knew very
little about each other. I am certain Americans do not want to see
people shot, including women and children, so what is your point
exactly?
My point is efarmer, that I have heard man Americans express an ugly vicious hate of Russians and therefore I was wondering if you knew if it was a majority who did so. It seems to me that Russians were demonized so fiercely during the cold war by the US and it was a political effort to bring the people onside with the agenda.
It's just that it's always been quite baffling to me how some Americans can express such hate toward people they don't even know and only because of political differences. Now the enemy has been changed for political expediency and the Iraqi people have become the enemy and we are hearing the same sort of hate rhetoric about them. The extreme is Ann Coulter who is supported by many conservatives, although few admit it, and who has suggested that the US should kill all the Muslim leaders and convert the people to Christianity. And that's not an isolated case as you should know. It's very troubling to say the least.
Then we hear about the US military slaughtering Iraqi civilians and even are shown an incident in a mosque where an American soldier/marine is shown shooting an Iraqi in cold blood because he had the nerve to move or beg for help. And we just know that for every incident we see on t.v. because of mistake in censoring a reporter, there are hundred happening.
So instead of claiming that it's not true becaue of your misdirected sense of needing to be patriotic, just tell me how deep it runs in your society.
Why do I ask? Because I have made it my mission to uncover the evil every chance I get. And by doing that I may be helping in some way to help form opinions of my fellow Canadians against the evil US wars.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
threadbear wrote:
...
JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, all took bullets because they essentially tried to reduce the threat of incipient fascism in the U.S. Had they not been killed your country would look a lot like a European social democracy. It's not all a cultural demographic problem.
*delicate cough*
There IS a big cultural difference between Europe and America. The USA is less socialistic and I make no apologies for it. One obvious difference is that we have this saying --> "The American Dream".
If society believes that you can move up in life through honest effort and hard work then that kind of takes away the enthusiasm for socialistic programs. This is why I believe for example (much to the disappointment of Ms. Clinton and die-hard liberals) we will NEVER have universal health care.
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: Re: Super Tuesday - And Beyond
cube wrote:
threadbear wrote:
...
JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, all took bullets because they essentially tried to reduce the threat of incipient fascism in the U.S. Had they not been killed your country would look a lot like a European social democracy. It's not all a cultural demographic problem.
*delicate cough*
There IS a big cultural difference between Europe and America. The USA is less socialistic and I make no apologies for it. One obvious difference is that we have this saying --> "The American Dream".
If society believes that you can move up in life through honest effort and hard work then that kind of takes away the enthusiasm for socialistic programs. This is why I believe for example (much to the disappointment of Ms. Clinton and die-hard liberals) we will NEVER have universal health care.
In France, a quarter of the population lives in government-subsidised housing complexes, known as HLM
That is absolutely unthinkable to an American!
I believe that the coming election will be the start of the ushering in of the social changes your country so badly needs. And if that election doesn't do it then the following one will because the people have just had enough of the greed and ignorance of the far right.
So much so that the Republican party can't even come close to putting forward a nominee for president who is a Bush type conservative and has to settle for John McCain because he is at least supportable by some Dems and some independents.
France for example, which has the #1 healthcare system in the world today, is the way of your future. European countries and Canada are the way of your future because the people are going to demand it. Change with the times or you will be left behind in the dust licking your wounds because the people will take what rightfully belongs to them and has been denied them for so long because of the American dream. The dream which benefits the few at the expense of the many.
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