How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: POers in their 20s?
Hey all,
As a 25 year old I'm wondering whether other people in this age group are prepping for the things to come. How do you guys see the events unfolding for our generation specifically? And what is everyone doing right now to improve their situation?
Joined: Jan 16, 2005 Posts: 283 Location: Delft, Netherlands
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
Work, listen, study and learn. Be friendly and upbeat. Talk to people. Read literature. Commit to a relationship. Raise a family. Care for your parents. Don't become attached to the fruits of your actions. Enjoy devine sacrifice. Don't worry. Be happy.
Last edited by Nano on Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
Just turned 21 myself. I'm going towards engineering, which is something I think I'd enjoy. Probably civil/environmental eng. I figure that the world will still need fresh water/air/food as well as safe buildings and cities. In fact, water and food will only get more expensive and air only more precious as time goes on, so I still hope to have a decent job.
On top of that, I'd like to get into reverse desertification projects either here in the US if required or possibly in Africa is the situation clears up or remains constant (in some parts which aren't horrible).
What about you xerces? _________________ I want to put out the fires of Hell, and burn down the rewards of Paradise. They block the way to God. I do not want to worship from fear of punishment or for the promise of reward, but simply for the love of God. - Rabia
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:21 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
To clarify, I'm looking specifically for the insights of other people in their 20s. I believe our generation to potentially be faced with the worst of the dislocations related to energy declines. _________________ http://backtowilderness.blogspot.com http://grown-up-permaculture.com
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1034 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
I am 25 yrs old, married, and live in Los Angeles.
One big step I have done lately in preparing for the future is purchasing property bordering our family homestead that was given to my great great grandfather in New Mexico. The homestead is 160 acres and we (parents, brother, and I) just bought 140 acres to the south.
The homestead is a working cattle ranch because we also lease several sections (1 section is 1 sq mile) of national forest where we run cattle. My family lived there since 1890 somthing till around 1960 when they moved to a city to live and work. We have kept the ranch for family value but realize it would be a great place to live if ever things got bad. The nearest town with a population over 1,000 is 130 miles away.
Anyways I think there will be major changes and in the mean time I am saving as much as possible to help buy more land if it becomes available.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 294 Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
I'm not entirely in agreement with you Nano. Being in a relationship with the right type of person could be beneficial, but if your partner isn't 100% on board with you and your plans to mitigate the effects of PO, they will just hamper and frustrate you. As for raising a family... that's about the worst thing you could do to prepare for PO. There's no way of knowing how PO will unfold, so I think it best to lead a lifestyle that is as flexible as possible, and which you can easily get out of if necessary. Basically you need to be as adaptive as can be to ensure you're going to get through this. Having kids will limit your flexibility, and prevent you from adapting whatever lifestyle is necessary to best weather PO.
My advice to others my age (25) depends on circumstances. If you've already got a degree, or are in the midst of one, complete it if you can earn good money afterwards. Once/if you're in a well-paying job live as simply as possible, save/invest as much as you can, and avoid debt altogether (no mortgage, credit card debt, etc.). Obviously staying in a lot of high paying jobs and getting promoted requires you to act as if spending on conspicuous consumption means the world to you. If you're in such a job, I think you should try act as if you're like your colleagues in this respect and talk about how much you want a snazy car, overpriced furniture, etc., but continue to live simply to the greatest extent possible. Once you've saved up enough, buy a small farm. Spend as much of your free time as possible acquiring useful skills, and reading up on stuff that will be helpful to know in any PO scenario you can imagine.
I'm now in the last year of law school, and will be working in a law firm from next year on. The above is pretty much what my plan is.
If you have some useless arts degree and can't get a good job, I would try to get into something useful like plumbing, or welding that will be useful no matter what happens. You should be able to continue working in the conventional sense well after the majority of white collar workers have lost their job.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 1034 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 6:44 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
If we live a full life meaning another 60 years + on this earth then we will be seeing a lot of crazy stuff. Educating yourself on how to live without the help of society is the best bang for your buck and there is tons of stuff out there.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 1715 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
I know this is a thread for the 20's age group but here's a paradox that seems to bedevil us all.
What can we do to categorically protect those that have yet to come behind us (i.e. leave the place as we found it). Are we able to act decisively? Or are forever destined to make the same mistakes as those older than us? _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: Dec 28, 2005 Posts: 294 Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
Not much can be done AmericanDream. As a starting point, I would say only have kids if you're willing to lead a lifestyle that is simple and sustainable. If this mentality becomes ingrained things at least should begin to improve, and we should be able to get our population back to the 1 billion level.
Of course the exact opposite is the case. Wasteful, stupid individuals reproducing in huge numbers, while environmentally aware types have very few kids.
Joined: Dec 30, 2007 Posts: 18 Location: Im not f#%king interested
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
auscanman wrote:
Not much can be done AmericanDream. As a starting point, I would say only have kids if you're willing to lead a lifestyle that is simple and sustainable. If this mentality becomes ingrained things at least should begin to improve, and we should be able to get our population back to the 1 billion level.
Of course the exact opposite is the case. Wasteful, stupid individuals reproducing in huge numbers, while environmentally aware types have very few kids.
Anyone with kids will be in alot of trouble when TSHTF. Simple, sustainable and vercitile will the best chance of survival.
As two you're question about our generation I think anyone of us who live to their 60s or so are going to be some tough s.o.bs.
Great thread peace _________________ Come and see and I saw, behold a pale horse.
Joined: Jan 12, 2007 Posts: 8 Location: Eastern Nebraska
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
Right now, with hard work, I should graduate with my BA in geography in the fall of 08. After college I can try to go get a job with a gps company down in KC, just to get some money.
As for other preparations. Well, I'm hoping to get a vegetable garden started this spring. I got a .22 rifle and I'm stockpiling ammo, so I can hunt small game if need be. Also, this summer I'll hopefully go to an outdoor leadership school and learn how to live, survive, and lead in the wilderness.
I'm looking to lead a simple, but still fulfilling, life. I'm not sure what to expect so I'm trying to be as flexible as possible with my preparations.
Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 11:04 pm Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
25yo here. Currently in architecture, a canary career if there ever was one. My plan is ride the status quo until it's bug out time; then it's back to my parents' farm for my wife and I, 170 acres back in Oklahoma. In the interim, I'm surveying the wind conditions there in hopes that we'll set up an off-grid turbine within the next couple of years. Also, I'm planning on becoming gun "savvy" in the next year or so. Financially speaking, we're just trying to eliminate some debt and perhaps buy some metals as a hedge against hyperinflation. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
I just turned 23 a week ago and am enthralled that I made it this far. I have a B.A. in philosophy.
1. The generation we are attached to is appalling. We act as if being an American we are entitled to a perfect future. A loving spouse, a house and kids, steady work etc . Wake up people! In the span of human time think of all the suffering that took place for several thousands of years.
2. Our generation was over nurtured. In our early years, the message "I am special" was hammered into our minds. We developed a sense of individual entitlement like no generation before us. We tend think in individual terms.
3. Our communication skills have diminished because of technology. We've become accustomed to hiding behind a screen and having time to think our responses up.
4. Generation XR anyone. A pill can be taken for any discomfort. 1 in every four of our generation is taking an SSRI even though it can't be proven whether it works.
I could babble for hours about this stuff but here's my simple answer:
I feel hopelessly trapped in my existence. My plan is to ride the waves of life wherever they may go.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
I just turned 25. I'm leading a bit of a double life right now.
By day, I'm working in the high-end consulting sector as a manager. This requires that I maintain the facade of an uber-consumer. By night, I'm working on a sustainable green side-business. The duality of one's existence is sometimes amusing. I seem to be switching between 2 different worlds with very different people serving as friends and colleagues.
Financially, I'm paying down my student loans as quickly as possible, I should be free and clear in 6 months. I'm saving as much money as possible and investing it into a plethora of yield generating instruments(PMs, funds, CDs, housing, land). Additionally, I've cut personal spending down to the bone. I still need the symbols of a high-end life style, but this is more to keep up appearances at work and with the family rather than to satisfy any intrinsic need. The idea is to have a portfolio of income sources which is highly resistant to financial dislocations. Right now if I lost my day job, the consequences would be severe. But if I keep up my current rate of investment, within a couple of years, the effects of a job loss would be greatly mitigated.
Socially, I'm trying to create as large of a personal network as possible. This entails not only tapping into corporate but also of community-based networks. The near to medium future, imho, lies in the localization of manufacturing, agriculture, and energy production. If we can help create this localized network of suppliers and consumers, if we can be a part of this solution, then we may do very well for ourselves and our community.
As I see it, this generation may well face the brunt of the coming crisis. We're not entirely responsible for getting into this mess. But I believe the burden is on us to resolve these intrinsic problems, if only to spare the next generation from getting shafted even more. I'm fairly optimistic about the future. It's better to live in a time where one's decisions and capabilities could actually make a difference in other people's lives. This, in many ways, is better than an uneventful( and well compensated) existence as a corporate drone. _________________ http://backtowilderness.blogspot.com http://grown-up-permaculture.com
Joined: Mar 04, 2007 Posts: 504 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: Re: POers in their 20s?
xerces wrote:
I just turned 25. I'm leading a bit of a double life right now.
By day, I'm working in the high-end consulting sector as a manager. This requires that I maintain the facade of an uber-consumer. By night, I'm working on a sustainable green side-business. The duality of one's existence is sometimes amusing. I seem to be switching between 2 different worlds with very different people serving as friends and colleagues.
Financially, I'm paying down my student loans as quickly as possible, I should be free and clear in 6 months. I'm saving as much money as possible and investing it into a plethora of yield generating instruments(PMs, funds, CDs, housing, land). Additionally, I've cut personal spending down to the bone. I still need the symbols of a high-end life style, but this is more to keep up appearances at work and with the family rather than to satisfy any intrinsic need. The idea is to have a portfolio of income sources which is highly resistant to financial dislocations. Right now if I lost my day job, the consequences would be severe. But if I keep up my current rate of investment, within a couple of years, the effects of a job loss would be greatly mitigated.
Socially, I'm trying to create as large of a personal network as possible. This entails not only tapping into corporate but also of community-based networks. The near to medium future, imho, lies in the localization of manufacturing, agriculture, and energy production. If we can help create this localized network of suppliers and consumers, if we can be a part of this solution, then we may do very well for ourselves and our community.
As I see it, this generation may well face the brunt of the coming crisis. We're not entirely responsible for getting into this mess. But I believe the burden is on us to resolve these intrinsic problems, if only to spare the next generation from getting shafted even more. I'm fairly optimistic about the future. It's better to live in a time where one's decisions and capabilities could actually make a difference in other people's lives. This, in many ways, is better than an uneventful( and well compensated) existence as a corporate drone.
Excellent thread. I'm no longer a twentysomething, but I was until recently, so I thought I'd contribute. I have a lot in common with other posters, it seems.
Like emersonbiggins, I have a "canary in the coalmine" career; I'm a writer and editor, doing mostly corporate work and marketing for SMEs. I'm hamstrung financially, thanks to our wonderful American system of going deep into debt for the sake of education. However, I've become very thrifty of late, and I'm planning to put a portion of my earnings into commodities and equity.
Like Xerces, I have to keep up appearances in the big city. I've scouted out some good bargains on quality classic menswear, so I still look sharp even though I'm pinching pennies.
Owning land is a pipedream, at least for the near future. My parents have an almost ideal bugout spot (that's not what they call it, of course ) in upstate New York, but they are planning on pulling up stumps and moving to Arizona of all places. There is quite a bit I could learn from my parents, though. My mother is longtime gardener, and she preserves vegetables as well, while my father is a brilliant woodworker and craftsman.
The best I can do is learn some new skills, while saving and making smart investment choices. I tried to get a volunteer job at an organic farm, but my Cantonese isn't up to snuff. Now I have to study Mandarin and Cantonese.
Despite the minor difficulties, I don't have any regrets about how I've spent my time so far. I got the hell out of America before I graduated from college and never came back, first living in Russia, then mainland China and Hong Kong. I've avoided the worst of my toxic native culture; I don't feel it necessary to expound on what Kirsten has written already. We all know what it's like on your side of the pond.
I've learned a lot from the Chinese, and I am grateful to have lived there. Thrift, patience, family, community and keeping your chin up during the hard times, these are Chinese virtues. I like to think that these virtues have rubbed off on me, and that can only help make me stronger.
I disagree with Auscanman's comments on love and relationships. I don't think anything - not even mass starvation and gun-wielding zombies - should get in the way of romance. For a man, there can be nothing more noble than protecting the woman you love and your children. If you're in love, hold onto what you have and do your best to make it through, regardless of whether or not she's a Peaknik. _________________ "We shall live in interesting times, and we shall die in them too." - Heineken
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) in upstate New York, but they are planning on pulling up stumps and moving to Arizona of all places. There is quite a bit I could learn from my parents, though. My mother is longtime gardener, and she preserves vegetables as well, while my father is a brilliant woodworker and craftsman.
