How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
If you do nothing you may not be able to afford to buy it. So understanding the problem prepare the situation by investing wisely _________________ Men argue, nature acts !
Voltaire
"...In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation."
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 623 Location: No man's land
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
FoolYap wrote:
billg wrote:
Actually, I'm referring more to the greed factor, not as much to agricultural commodities. That's another discussion.
Ah. Well, the topic of the thread is "Agricultural Commodities to 'Explode'", so one assumes.
I'm invested in ag commodities, to try to earn enough to be able to retire some day. Not to mention, try to stay ahead of inflation. If ag commodities are rising in price, I'll invest in them. That's not greed, is it?
--Steve
Other than profit seeking, why are you invested in ag commodities? What are your principles? _________________ "It is no measure of health to be deemed sane in an insane society" J. Krishnamurti
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
billg wrote:
...
Other than profit seeking, why are you invested in ag commodities? What are your principles?
You make it seem like "profit seeking" is a bad thing.
How do you expect a company to produce things like planes, trains, automobiles, and other modern marvels if there are no "profit seekers" to invest their money into the company? hmmm?
without "profit seekers" we'd be living in the stone age.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
billg wrote:
FoolYap wrote:
billg wrote:
Actually, I'm referring more to the greed factor, not as much to agricultural commodities. That's another discussion.
Ah. Well, the topic of the thread is "Agricultural Commodities to 'Explode'", so one assumes.
I'm invested in ag commodities, to try to earn enough to be able to retire some day. Not to mention, try to stay ahead of inflation. If ag commodities are rising in price, I'll invest in them. That's not greed, is it?
--Steve
Other than profit seeking, why are you invested in ag commodities? What are your principles?
I want to strip wealth away from the Paris Hiltons and Brittney Spears of the world! Duh!! ; - )) _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
seahorse2 wrote:
Mr. Bill,
What's your take on Jim Rodgers? What's his reputation in your world? Is he just pumping his own agenda?
Umm, yah! From Investment Biker onwards he is not shy to talk his own book! ; - ) _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Last edited by MrBill on Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:14 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:19 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
I can see he has an ego, but even egotist can be right. Do you think he knows what he's talking about on this issue? Do you generally agree or disagree with his comments in the quoted article?
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 623 Location: No man's land
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
mattduke wrote:
billg wrote:
It definitely rubs me the wrong way when I hear about how people want to cash in on what is going to cause of lot of distress for a lot of people.
My god billg you have less understanding of economics than a congressman. I can tell that you have never run your own business (or if you have it failed). You probably think that "everything should be free." Profit is the north star that guides society to improve it's condition. A profitable operation is one that produces things more highly valued than that which it consumes. The more profitable a business, the better off society is. Unprofitable businesses produce products less valued than that which they consume. They make society less well off and we should rejoice when they fail. Government taxes the profitable operations which makes us worse off, and subsidizes the unprofitable operations, making us worse off. Profits in the ag sector are causing a mad scramble to produce more food so we don't starve. Those who are "cashing in on the distress" are precisely the ones who are risking their own savings to alleviate the distress. Since you are so concerned about people's distress from food prices, why don't you allocate some of your own capital to the industry? Why aren't you happy that high food prices will impoverish more people? That will force them to consume less resources after all. Profit is only a crime when it comes from government expenditures.
William F Buckley is dead and so is the Corporation of the United States of Amerika. For what reason I cannot fathom, you distinguish between the profit-seeking endeavors of the government and those endeavors in the business world. Yes...I'll concede that there are few responsible small businesses that recognize ecological impact and live within their means but the great majority of businesses pay attention only to the bottom line. Likewise, all those factions that compose the government are interested in their bottom line.
We all know that industrial agriculture is unsustainable so why are we pouring more and more resources into it? Maybe that is where the profit is right now but it's not where you will find long-term sustainability. Stop kidding yourself mattduke...those investing in ag commodities care nothing about the planet and the little man who needs to feed himself. It's all about making a buck.
You ask me why I don't allocate some of my capital to the industry. Well, I've spent the last 7 summers working on small organic farms so I hope that counts for something.
By the way, I'm not so concerned about the distress felt about high food prices since that may be a wake up call for many people... I'm more concerned about the moral fiber of people who see a financial opportunity while the little man bites the bullet. _________________ "It is no measure of health to be deemed sane in an insane society" J. Krishnamurti
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 623 Location: No man's land
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
MrBill wrote:
seahorse2 wrote:
Mr. Bill,
What's your take on Jim Rodgers? What's his reputation in your world? Is he just pumping his own agenda?
Umm, yah! From Investment Biker onwards he is not shy to talk his own book! ; - )
You are bragging...it's quite obvious AND pathetic. _________________ "It is no measure of health to be deemed sane in an insane society" J. Krishnamurti
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
billg,
What do you eat? How is it paid for? Shouldn't you, by the ethic you seem to be espousing here, donate that food or income to some less fortunate soul and quietly starve? If not, what are your limits of providing for ones self?
Joined: Sep 04, 2005 Posts: 356 Location: central MA, USA
Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
billg wrote:
FoolYap wrote:
I'm invested in ag commodities, to try to earn enough to be able to retire some day. Not to mention, try to stay ahead of inflation. If ag commodities are rising in price, I'll invest in them. That's not greed, is it?
--Steve
Other than profit seeking, why are you invested in ag commodities? What are your principles?
What an odd question. I don't invest to try to improve the lot of others, if that's what you mean? That's what I make charitable donations for.
I find it a bad idea to try to invest for reasons other than making profits. I'm not completely unprincipled -- I prefer not to invest in tobacco companies, for example, because I don't see any good in the product at all -- but I am in it for the money, yes. Making profits allows me the luxury of having money to donate, among other things.
Out of curiosity, what do you invest in, and why? Friendly question.
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 623 Location: No man's land
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
patience wrote:
billg,
What do you eat? How is it paid for? Shouldn't you, by the ethic you seem to be espousing here, donate that food or income to some less fortunate soul and quietly starve? If not, what are your limits of providing for ones self?
I can say that my diet would not make a third worlder jealous...I eat extremely low on the food chain. For whatever reason, I've always had an austerity streak in me... _________________ "It is no measure of health to be deemed sane in an insane society" J. Krishnamurti
Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:03 am Post subject: Re: Jim Rogers: Agricultural Commodities to `Explode'
Whether we like it or not, somebody is going to speculate on the price of wheat.
The price is going up. There isn't enough, and all the wheat in the world is in the market now.
There aren't any small villages that just grow the food they need to survive.
We're all in the system now.
The reason that the price of ag commodities is going up is that it takes a lot of water and energy to make them. The price of both of those things is going up.
The price has to reflect the cost of production.
We make maple syrup, and I can't sell it for last year's price, unless we want to lose money.
Agricultural commoditity prices are going up.
We can only hope that they go up enough so that the farmers keep producing. _________________ Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
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