How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
The Government will today anger environmentalists by signalling its support for a controversial new generation of coal-fired power stations and warning that Britain needs to burn more fossil fuels to prevent power cuts.
John Hutton, the Secretary of State for Business, will say that "clean coal" has a crucial role to play in filling Britain's energy gap for the future. He will accuse the green lobby of "gesture politics" by opposing any coal-fired plants, putting energy supplies at risk and presenting a false "black and white" choice to the public over coal.
Quote:
A further seven coal-fired plants are in the pipeline if, as expected, ministers give the go-ahead to Kingsnorth. Other possible sites include Blyth, Northumberland; Tilbury, Essex; Ferrybridge, West Yorkshire; High Marnham, Nottinghamshire; Longannet, Fife and Cockenzie, East Lothian.
Ministers insisted they recognised the environmental concerns, claiming Britain was taking a global lead on clean coal power generation. They argued the Government could not afford to play fast and loose with energy supplies and must ensure "the lights stay on". Mr Hutton will tell the Government's critics that its commitment to "decarbonise" Britain's electricity mix by the middle of the century remains "non-negotiable".
"But over this period, as we develop low-carbon technologies, we should be under no illusion – generation from fossil fuels will continue to play a key role," he will add.
Just goes to prove that our commitment to the environment only goes so deep. We love mother earth, but not enough to really sacrifice anything for her. _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
How many windmills does it take to equal 1 coal plant? That probably explains why Britain is building coal plants and not windmills. Of course coal is ultimately unsustainable but that's why they call it ---> die-off.
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
cube wrote:
How many windmills does it take to equal 1 coal plant? That probably explains why Britain is building coal plants and not windmills. Of course coal is ultimately unsustainable but that's why they call it ---> die-off.
Nothing will stop it until Limits to growth resource constraints start to bite. _________________ "Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box."
-Italian Proverb
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:29 am Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
Quote:
John Hutton, the Secretary of State for Business, will say that "clean coal" has a crucial role to play in filling Britain's energy gap for the future.
I believe in clean coal just like I believe in "the compassionate rapist".
Lovelock was so bloody right. We would just play word games to delude ourselves.
Joined: Feb 20, 2005 Posts: 2640 Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
All past experience and all current events come down to the fact that in the real world, where real things actually happen, it is either coal or it is nuclear. _________________ Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
Joined: May 13, 2005 Posts: 2499 Location: The Urban Village
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:21 am Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
Starvid wrote:
All past experience and all current events come down to the fact that in the real world, where real things actually happen, it is either coal or it is nuclear.
Joined: Oct 22, 2005 Posts: 705 Location: European Capital of Kulcha 2008
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 12:54 pm Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
Most Brits fondly believe that Thatcher mothballed the coalmines in the 1980s - with all their untapped riches intact - merely to bring down the powerful National Union of Miners, and thereby deal a deathblow to unionisation as a whole.
Like 'King Arthur' (the legend; not 'Scargill') they believe that in their hour of need, the coalmines will be opened up again, and everything will be fine. In fact, even before the beginning of the transition to North Sea Gas in the 70s-80s, UK coal production had already peaked by the mid 1920s.
It seems the only long term solution to the problem is to reduce overall demand.
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4361 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
The problem with British coal was that it was not cost effective to mine. There is still lots of coal in the ground, it just costs a tidy some to dig it up.
At some price point (and we might already be there), the UK can reopen its coal mines. It won't be cheap but if they really, really need the resource, they can get it.
The coal industry in the UK didn't contract because it ran out of coal, it contracted because it ran out of CHEAP coal.
Cheaper imported coal from the US (or wherever they came from) put domestic producers out of business. Change the economics of the situation and Britain might be able to substantially increase its coal production. It won't reach its peak levels but there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to at least double current production. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: Re: Britian to build more coal power plants
With the best will in the world, do any of you honestly think that todays "Game Boy & Gadget" obsessed teenagers & young adults actually give a crap about where the energy to run their computer, i-pod, games console, HD TV etc infinitum, comes from ??????
Err No & most middle aged (my age) & older folk won't take to kindly to power cuts or outages because "were saving the planet" excuses. They all want to be able to go home at night, turn on the telly, the kettle, the oven & the computer games to obliterate the world outside their doors.
They will let the governments of the world do whatever they like so long as they keep the lights on which leads to the illusion of an advanced society ! Which we are NOT & never have been & unfortunately NEVER will be.
The human species is no different to any other animal on the planet, we will expand in numbers in times of plenty & contract in times of famine. The energy bonus from oil has allowed us to take that to extreme levels, which means we are in for an extreme contraction, so are you going to tell the dum asses ? Why bother do you think they will listen ? Err NO they won't right up until their lights are extinguished & they die.
Sometimes ignorance is pure bliss ! _________________ The roller coaster is still climbing, but it's near the top now !
Where there's a WAR there's a WAY
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