I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4884 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:12 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
burtonridr wrote:
A revolution will take more than just farmers and trailer park rednecks.... A revolution will split the army into two sides.
Do you really think during a revolution the army/national guard/police are going to keep in line?
I have friends in all three mentioned above, they are all citizens as well, they are taxed the same as everyone else, pay the same for gas, have the same problems with the government as everyone else. For some it is just a career path with good benefits. It doesnt mean they will have unfaltering loyalty when the SHTF.
Without members of the army/ national guard that have been trained to use force, there will not be a revolution... It will just be another riot, or maybe that is how it will start.
If the army is not split in half over an issue I can almost guarantee whoever the army/ national guard sides with will win.
Still I believe that it will take a strong enough issue that splits the powers in half to create an effective revolution.
But then again anything could happen.... So long as we are playing the what if game.
Excellent observations.
In my opinion there could be a MAJOR change in the way the (current) USA is governed and administered IF (or maybe, when) the level of poverty reaches a critical point. Like, when we reach a point where no more entitlement checks arrive in the mail ... or maybe, entitlement checks eroding to a point they can't buy much. I'm including welfare checks and section 8 vouchers and all of the rest of it too. I'm talking to ALL of the handouts whether earned, deserved, or not. Even government retirement checks. They all can become 'at risk' at some point.
There could clearly come a point where they no longer have much purchasing power. Add to that a really high unemployment and that's when change... not fake change... but REAL change will likely occur.
That could lead to some kind of a revolution. A revolution many won't like. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Nickel
I'm not even going to entertain your horseshit except to say this: It is typical for those of your mindset to want to attack me for what my opinions are just because you disagree. You then went on to attack my service and the service of all those serving the United States in uniform. All the while hiding behind your computer monitor. You are a coward with a keyboard and if the situation arose that would allow you to say the things you write to the face of an american soldier you would no doubt take a pass.
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Burton & Eastbay
If the dollar continues to drop and really starts to become worthless then the govnmt. won't be able to pay soldiers, cops and other emergency personel. I'm sure there are a few idealists left but there aren't many who would or could work for free. I'm not implying the dollar is going to reach a full collapse anytime soon but it is on its way.
Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Quote:
The crown's due to be passed, and we've got to face up to that.
No nickle we've got to fight it not face up to it. You sound like your happy about your little revelation. Just how far to the left are you? You sound like your rooting against the U.S. Nickle, maybe you are but I believe in everything this country stands for and i can tell you we will not be pushed out without a fight. A very bloody one no doubt.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Itsallcomindown wrote:
I'm not even going to entertain your horseshit except to say this: It is typical for those of your mindset to want to attack me for what my opinions are just because you disagree. You then went on to attack my service and the service of all those serving the United States in uniform. All the while hiding behind your computer monitor. You are a coward with a keyboard and if the situation arose that would allow you to say the things you write to the face of an american soldier you would no doubt take a pass.
No, you're right; I wouldn't say those things face to face to a man with so little conscience he thinks invading someone else's country and supporting the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children is a public service and an essential good; a man so inhumane that he ignores the fiendish actions of his own country in deference to the supposed threats lurking in the minds of other peoples who have not crossed the ocean to assault his country. I wouldn't say these things face to face to a person with such a mindset, allied to training in physical assault and weapons use, precisely for the reason you demonstrate: that when your ability to discourse fails you, you turn to the threat of violence implied at the end of your statement. You would turn someone's opinions and differences into an excuse for violence, just as your country has done repeatedly in the last several years. Here, at least, we are equals: a meeting of minds and points of view, not bone and blades and teeth, thank you very much.
My own family has a military background; three generations of it. Called to service in two world wars, and then to hold the line and keep the peace in the Cold War. But you are an invader, and happy one at that. There's there a real difference in the nature of your service and your mindset, as opposed to the military service and mindset of the tradition I understand. You represent the very thing my family has had to stand against: hegemonistic invaders from abroad, bent on dominance and control of others. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Last edited by Nickel on Thu May 29, 2008 7:43 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Itsallcomindown wrote:
No nickle we've got to fight it not face up to it. You sound like your happy about your little revelation.
I'm pleased with the idea that the US will likely soon be just what it should be: a major regional power with substantial global influence, rather than "the sole superpower" invading any country that hasn't gone to the trouble of actually acquiring nuclear weapons, yes. I think spheres of influence did a good job of keeping the peace (generally speaking) after the Second World War, and I'd like to return to those days. I think they're coming, and we're seeing new players, too, like the South American bloc. I honestly feel our best hope of getting to the 22nd Century and out beyond the Earth will come from sober negotiation between relative regional peers, rather than one cold-blooded, self-interested colossus astride the world, with no cause or need to respect the rights and differences of others.
I don't cheer the idea of any other country acquiring that level of power, but I do cheer the idea that other nations and blocs will become powerful enough that the use of US power will be properly circumspect.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
Just how far to the left are you?
On some issues, substantially. On others, not much at all. I think about issues, rather than just accepting the party line one way or the other. But then, I think most people do, deep down. Sometimes they just don't want to say what they really feel for fear of being ostracized.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
You sound like your rooting against the U.S. Nickle, maybe you are but I believe in everything this country stands for and i can tell you we will not be pushed out without a fight. A very bloody one no doubt.
I don't think it's going to come to that, frankly. I think we're already in the process of US power becoming circumscribed, and being quietly shut out from places it traditionally reigned supreme... southeast Asia, for instance, and lately, and with a suddenness that's surprising, much of the Middle East. The US would do well to marshal its resources and its influence, rather than wasting them on trying to force others to accept its merest whims. But a fight? Nothing's impossible, but in truth, I think it's going to be much more like the decline of the British Empire: inevitably, there comes the morning you just can't get out of (the imperial) bed, and the world goes on without you. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6287 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Nickel wrote:
a man with so little conscience he thinks invading someone else's country and supporting the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children is a public service and an essential good; a man so inhumane that he ignores the fiendish actions of his own country
I assume you are talking about yourself and your deep regrets about the way you Canadians slaughtered the Indians and Innuit and stole their land?
You are aware that you evil Canadians murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children and built your society on their graves?
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4884 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Plantagenet wrote:
Nickel wrote:
a man with so little conscience he thinks invading someone else's country and supporting the murder of hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children is a public service and an essential good; a man so inhumane that he ignores the fiendish actions of his own country
I assume you are talking about yourself and your deep regrets about the way you Canadians slaughtered the Indians and Innuit and stole their land?
You are aware that you evil Canadians murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children and built your society on their graves?
Would you guys cease and desist! No fighting.
Look. Almost all civilizations root themselves by often violently de-rooting the indigenous occupants. Americans, Canadians, Limeys British, Chinese.... almost all. So there's no ancestral 'high road' on this one folks. _________________ Got Dharma?
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:51 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Itsallcomindown wrote:
Nickel
I'm not even going to entertain your horseshit except to say this: It is typical for those of your mindset to want to attack me for what my opinions are just because you disagree. You then went on to attack my service and the service of all those serving the United States in uniform. All the while hiding behind your computer monitor. You are a coward with a keyboard and if the situation arose that would allow you to say the things you write to the face of an american soldier you would no doubt take a pass.
Maybe you should invade his country, grab his sorry ass from behind his computer screen and waterboard him till he cries like a baby.
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4884 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
threadbear wrote:
Itsallcomindown wrote:
Nickel
I'm not even going to entertain your horseshit except to say this: It is typical for those of your mindset to want to attack me for what my opinions are just because you disagree. You then went on to attack my service and the service of all those serving the United States in uniform. All the while hiding behind your computer monitor. You are a coward with a keyboard and if the situation arose that would allow you to say the things you write to the face of an american soldier you would no doubt take a pass.
Maybe you should invade his country, grab his sorry ass from behind his computer screen and waterboard him till he cries like a baby.
That would be the honorable thing to do.
Patriotic too. I would salute him. _________________ Got Dharma?
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 6287 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 12:46 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
eastbay wrote:
Almost all civilizations root themselves by often violently de-rooting the indigenous occupants. Americans, Canadians, Limeys British, Chinese.... almost all. So there's no ancestral 'high road' on this one folks.
Of course.
That was my implicit point.
Hope things are going great in Portland, Eastbay.
By the way....are you excited about the new movie Hollywood has made about Che? I hear the scene where Che fights Batista with light sabers as a volcano erupts in the background is really great!
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Plantagenet wrote:
I assume you are talking about yourself and your deep regrets about the way you Canadians slaughtered the Indians and Innuit and stole their land?
First of all, we didn't have the kind of history you had. We didn't have a Trail of Tears. When Geronimo was looking for protection from you, he came to Canada and appealed to Queen Victoria. His only mistake was allowing himself to be coaxed back to the lands of his youth. I'm not saying there weren't displacements and enmity. There were. But nothing on the scale in the States. Natives are represented in our Constitution; the Proclamation of 1763 you guys started the Revolution over (in part) still protects their rights here. The courts take that seriously here, and land claims are still being worked out. As for the Inuit, they organized a territory of their own in 1999 and it remains in Canada. Mistakes were made, but we don't just sit around paying lip service to it... we actually make ongoing changes in regard to it. When we contemplate an amendment, the Assembly of First Nations is a consultant, effectively as an eleventh province. When was the last time the US did anything like that?
There's no question that every country in America was filled up by people who showed up and didn't ask permission. But some have handled that legacy a lot better than others.
Plantagenet wrote:
You are aware that you evil Canadians murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women, and children and built your society on their graves?
No, what I'm aware of is that this is a tough country to make a living in, and that wasn't done by packing up the "savages" like George Washington (better known as "Town Destroyer" to the Iroquois) and Andy Jackson did and pushing them out. It was done by listening to what they had to teach and working in partnership with them where they were. French settlement here in the 1630s would have failed without their help, and the French and the peoples of the St. Lawrence and Ottawa River valleys between then established the life of the courrier du bois that was the basis of the economy for next two hundred years. Yes, European ways trumped... backed by more technology and numbers, they were pretty much bound to. But for the most part, the natives in such areas (particularly where the French lived) intermingled with the settlers and eventually became people like me.
With the notable exception of the Metis rebellions of the late 1800s, most of the wars involving Europeans and First Nations were predicated on support for one or another empire, and then the sides in the American Revolution. Once that was settled, that was largely it for armed struggle on this side of the Great Lakes. The paradigm was different here. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Plantagenet wrote:
eastbay wrote:
Almost all civilizations root themselves by often violently de-rooting the indigenous occupants. Americans, Canadians, Limeys British, Chinese.... almost all. So there's no ancestral 'high road' on this one folks.
Of course.
That was my implicit point.
No, this is equivocation. There are differences in the ways countries do and have done things. Not every country IS Nazi Germany simply because there WAS a Nazi Germany. And suggesting we can all learn from each other doesn't absolve us from actually doing so when there's a material case to be made. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
No there won’t be a revolution, but Darwin will be at work, and all of you weak kneed, pansy assed, bed wetter’s will get your ass purged. Then we will have a survival able group. Have a nice day.
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Then stop driving to work, duh..... 
