How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
When it gets serious, we will face this as all threats to our nation. People will finally pull together and cause the necessary changes to make it work. People are resourceful and can do anything once they buy into it.
joel
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Nickel
I really wasn't going to take the time to respond to your stupid ass, but i can't help myself. You talk about fair and intellectual discourse and yet you want to make personal attacks. You implied that i was a bloodthirsty murderer and you don't know me. You don't know my service record. You just make blind assumptions because you believe everything you read on the blogs and hear on the news. If you were not such a coward you might take a trip to Iraq and see whats going on there for yourself. The state department has no restrictions on civilians traveling to Iraq. Of course, you would probably end up beheaded on youtube and only then, in the last seconds of your life would you know what a bloodthirsty murderer looks like.
In response to the genocide of native americans topic; its all true. It is true that persons of European ancestry came here and slaughtered the native peoples to establish the U.S. and Canada. But at least we put the survivors on reservations, hell, look what the spanish did to the Mayans, the Incans, and the Aztecs. From a realist perspective, it doesn't matter whether or not what our ancestors did was right or wrong, moral or immoral. It's what happened, and if it hadn't of happened none of us would have our countries or our way of life today. No matter how 'civilized' a person or a people get, it all reverts back to the law of the jungle, with the strong surviving. We as westerners like to think that we have evolved past the days of taking what we want just because we can, but there are hundreds of millions, if not billions of people who haven't evolved past this and they see our tolerance of other cultures and disgust for war as weakness and are waiting for the day to get there chance to strike. We are truly facing a clash of civilizations. In the U.S. ( and i believed this true of Candada as well, until i heard Nickel's lunatic rants) we believe in basic tenets of freedom. The majority of the world's population do not live in free societies. If the U.S. were ever thrust into an upheaval look for U.N. peacekeepers from Russia, China, Pakistan, maybe Syria amongst others to come in, all of whom are lickin there chops to get a piece of this country. If something like that were to happen, it would all become painfully clear why we should be fighting for the values that we all hold.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 657 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Itsallcomindown wrote:
I really wasn't going to take the time to respond to your stupid ass, but i can't help myself.
Sure, we're your personal Twelve Step Program. Fire away, we're listening.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
You talk about fair and intellectual discourse and yet you want to make personal attacks.
Yeah... I believe you were the one characterizing someone else's views as "horseshit", not me. So don't bother lecturing me on rhetorical niceties, thanks.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
You implied that i was a bloodthirsty murderer and you don't know me.
No, I said you were an invader, and a happy one at that. That was clear enough in the attitude you had and in what you said about the people over there. As to whether or not you're a murderer in actuality, well... I don't claim to be privy to that. I suppose that's between you and God, isn't it?
Itsallcomindown wrote:
You just make blind assumptions because you believe everything you read on the blogs and hear on the news.
I didn't make assumptions based on anything but the fact that you purported to us that people want to come over to your country and kill you for being different... whereas people wearing the same uniform as you actually DO go to other people's countries and kill them for being different. You actually believe they want to kill you for drinking beer and listening to Led Zeppelin, rather than for a century of showing up in THEIR countries and killing people they love. That's what my based my assumption on.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
If you were not such a coward you might take a trip to Iraq and see whats going on there for yourself.
Cowardice comes in many forms, including belligerence from a point of unassailable force. Therefore, if you weren't such a coward, you might actually let other people live lives different from the one you live, hold opinions different from those you favour, pursue interests that aren't necessarily your own, all without having to control them, threaten them, kill them.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
The state department has no restrictions on civilians traveling to Iraq.
The US State Department doesn't get to decide where I can go. Neither does the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in my own government. It issues advisories, but does not tell citizens where they may or may not go in the world. But then, you'd expect that of a real democracy.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
It is true that persons of European ancestry came here and slaughtered the native peoples to establish the U.S. and Canada.
I don't accept these in equivalent terms. In a country of 300 million, the Native population of the US is just less than 500,000. In Canada, with a population of only 33 million, the Native population is over a million. To characterize the Canadian experience of Native-European interaction as anything like that of the United States is grossly inappropriate.
Itsallcomindown wrote:
In the U.S. ( and i believed this true of Candada as well, until i heard Nickel's lunatic rants) we believe in basic tenets of freedom.
Define the "basic tenets of freedom".
Itsallcomindown wrote:
If the U.S. were ever thrust into an upheaval look for U.N. peacekeepers from Russia, China, Pakistan, maybe Syria amongst others to come in, all of whom are lickin there chops to get a piece of this country.
China and Russia ALREADY own huge pieces of the US, thanks to the way you've been shoveling red ink out the door for generations. Did you realize that Russia has paid off its national debt, and those of some of the former Soviet republics around it as well? Yeah, basket case Russia. So why would they want to throw good money after bad putting troops on your soil when they could just send over some plant managers to run the things they own the way they want? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 657 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Plantagenet wrote:
Nickel wrote:
Canada fell down ... we haven't taken part in an imperialistic venture like that since the Boer War.
You don't get it.
The whole of Canada itself is an "imperialistic venture." Thats the sole reason Canada exists as it does today.
Certainly it is. But you're suggesting it was predicated on the wholesale slaughter of the people who lived here at the time, simply because that's in accord with your own national experience, and I'm setting you straight that these are not historic parallels. The paradigm for the accommodation of European settlement here was different from that of the United States, and remains so to this day, from the constitutional level on down to the practical level. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 5095 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Nickel wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:
Nickel wrote:
Canada fell down ... we haven't taken part in an imperialistic venture like that since the Boer War.
You don't get it.
The whole of Canada itself is an "imperialistic venture." Thats the sole reason Canada exists as it does today.
Certainly it is. But you're suggesting it was predicated on the wholesale slaughter of the people who lived here at the time, simply because that's in accord with your own national experience.
Your entire post is based on an error.
You either didn't actually read my post or you are intentionally misrepresenting my view when you state I suggested the conquest of native Americans in Canada was predicted on wholesale slaughter. You can fantasize about wholesale slaughter all you want, but please don't attribute your fantasies to me...I didn't post that.
Its a simple historical fact that some Canadian Indian tribes were defeated militarily and their lands were reduced or seized. Others bowed to the inevitable and signed treaties and had their lands reduced or seized.
The end result was the same. Canada appropriated the lands of the native peoples and exists today on lands seized and "stolen" from native peoples.
Canada is a lovely place, but lets not pretend the native peoples happily gave away their lands in gratitude for some shiny buttons _________________ "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell
Posted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Nickel wrote:
vetusfirma wrote:
No there won’t be a revolution, but Darwin will be at work, and all of you weak kneed, pansy assed, bed wetter’s will get your ass purged. Then we will have a survival able group. Have a nice day.
No doubt appointing you their Communications Officer.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 657 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Plantagenet wrote:
Your entire post is based on an error.
No, your is. You're comparing two acts of -- okay, let's call it theft for the sake of argument -- and declaring them morally equal on that basis. But they're not. The manner in which European colonization unfolded, and continues to unfold, in Canada and the United States is different, and markedly so. I don't purport that there are no issues, but that's the difference... in Canada, it's not possible to pretend that. In the US, "Indians" are relegated to romantic figures who sometimes show up in the movies, akin to passenger pigeons and dinosaurs, not people who prevent the adoption of a new constitution with a word, as Elijah Harper did here. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3261 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Gentlemen, a thread about the history of our neighbor, Canada, would be where these recent posts should go.
Let's get back on topic, shall we? Thank you very much. _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 9:43 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Ferretlover wrote:
Gentlemen, a thread about the history of our neighbor, Canada, would be where these recent posts should go.
Let's get back on topic, shall we? Thank you very much.
Blame Canada!
Anyone else like south park? _________________ Tired of high gas prices? Then stop driving to work, duh..... Learn to Work from home
Joined: Jun 13, 2007 Posts: 3261 Location: Minniesotuh
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:01 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
burtonridr wrote:
Ferretlover wrote:
Gentlemen, a thread about the history of our neighbor, Canada, would be where these recent posts should go.
Let's get back on topic, shall we? Thank you very much.
Blame Canada!
Anyone else like south park?
BR, you're a stinker this morning! _________________ "RRrrruuuunnnn!!!" ~Apocalypto
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3828 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
joelcolorado wrote:
When it gets serious, we will face this as all threats to our nation. People will finally pull together and cause the necessary changes to make it work. People are resourceful and can do anything once they buy into it.
joel
can i just hide in the weeds and watch all the fun happen.
Posted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Ferretlover wrote:
burtonridr wrote:
Ferretlover wrote:
Gentlemen, a thread about the history of our neighbor, Canada, would be where these recent posts should go.
Let's get back on topic, shall we? Thank you very much.
Blame Canada!
Anyone else like south park?
BR, you're a stinker this morning!
I wonder if that comment sparked the "blame canada! - they're not a real country anyway" thread _________________ Tired of high gas prices? Then stop driving to work, duh..... Learn to Work from home
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
Sooner or later, the U.S. is going to get so bad for the majority of it's citizens that a revolution will occur. There's nothing going on in America right now that is bad enough or hurts the people enough where a revolt is seen as a viable option though. As long as people are relatively unaffected there's no reason for the risk of an open revolt.
Unless you are in the top 1% economically in the U.S., things are probably not going well for you right now. America is being mismanaged into oblivion. The right and left are going to disagree on what is the cause of the problem and what the solution is, but the fact is our highway dependent economy is not going to run smoothly on $5 diesel, and there's NOTHING anyone can do about it because our very 'American Way of Life' (otherwise known as 'status quo') will not allow us to make the necessary steps to keep us out of economic collapse.
So when peak oil passes, OPEC switches to the euro, hyperinflation rocks the country, a Depression that makes the Great Depression look like the 1999 NASDAQ happens, and all these laws congress is letting our administration get away with passing start getting enforced, maybe people will start to notice that the Powers-That-Be have raped the country to stuff their wallets with billions. Maybe then we will have a revolution. But it's going to have to get a whole lot worse 'round here.
Regardless of the exact form, be it religious, communist, libertarian, or my personal favorite: Johhnytrash for Eternal Emperor, the revolution will occur by the have-nots against the haves. Period. And history has shown, for better or for worse, when the people that grow your food and the people that build your weapons decide they are sick of you, no amount or weapons or authority can stop you from being put against the wall.
So I guess my answer is YES, there will be a revolution in America. But I truly hope that I will have died of old age first.
Joined: Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 103 Location: Europe: European Historian
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Is America going to have a Revolution?
I don't think the USA will have a Revolution. I think it will fractionize., and break apart as cheap energy is gone.
The USA as a whole won't be worth savaging, and its too energy intensive to do so.
Also Revolutions are fought on ideologies? Just what ideology are Americans going to have a revolt against? McKain vs Obama...
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Then stop driving to work, duh..... 
