Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12021 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
steam_cannon wrote:
you could grow some of your food during the
year.
So could almost anyone with a yard. The 20 acres isn't much of a benefit for survival, it is for esthetic enjoyment (being somewhat far from the noisy neighbors).
Taking someone's comments out of context (my desire for 20 acres) isn't very helpful. Maybe it's funny, I don't know. It didn't strike me that way (obviously). Guess I'm not having much of a sense of humor today.
I don't want people to get the (in my opinion) erroneous idea that having acreage will somehow magically confer upon them increased ability to survive an economic collapse. It may, or it may not. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
I value some of the replies on here. I've read them all, the only reason why I said die off, was because I had came upon that site as well, but chose not to read it.
I do feel a little better about some things now.
I found Peak Oil Debunked and while it's some fresh air from LATOC.
I wonder if these guys are in denial??
It is true that the future isn't written.
Oh, and yes my wife's family does depend.
Her sister has MS
Mother has bad depression and OCD issues.
Father needs BP meds
MY family
Mother needs insulin
Step father needs BP meds
my youger sister needs inhalers and breathing machine
That's our whole family, right there. I've got cousins and things who don't need meds but they are far away, same for her. The rest of my family live in upstate New York. Hers in Colorado.
We live in Texas. The U.S. is prjected to take the worst of it all.
It's like a bad dream that won't go away.
I feel that if we acted we could avoid complete chaos. We will see alot of hardships.
As for me personally....I have Atrial fibrillation, Mitral Valve Prolapse.
I take an abeta blocker called Metroprolol. 50 mg twice daily.
Keeps my heart from beating too fast. Without the meds my heart will go up to 186-210 bpm.
Like I've said I am very worried, I know we will all die some day, but I was hoping to grow old with my wife and to spend our days/evenings having fun together.
It'll take some time to readjust.
Also can someone tell me I are confused. If say all liquids peaked in 2010, followed by shortages and what not, yet it's projected that demand will grow to 115 mbd in 2020, I think. How can that be if in 2010 oil shortages occur, then an economy cannot gorw any further, right? ANd in turn prices would drop because if that, not right away of course, but they would drop. I want to hold hope that we as a race can overcome this. I wish we could all be friends with the world. One thing I despise about Bush is the fact we have more enemies and less friends because of him. And he threw us back inot debt. At least Clinton got us out of it.
As for guns I've got plenty of those. 20 in total. in cluding two AR-15's. Plus I can reload somewhat. I hope that I will never have to use those to survive and collect food or anything like that. I hope my wife will be fine. I hope Matt Savinar is wrong. Upon futher reviewing of his site, I wonder if he uses it to sell things from his store? My head is hurting I've been up all morning researching things. And it doesn't look so bleak. I will hold out hope.
As of now I am in debt of about 23,000 I won't be able to pay that off anytime soon. I don't have a degree in anything and I work in a electronics store making about 10 n hour. While looking at getting into school to have a life of better quality. My wife and I don't do much. We're fine that way. We don't go to many places and we at least live very close to our jobs. Not in walking distance but less than 5 miles, so yeah walking distance.......I'm just rambling.
Joined: Oct 04, 2007 Posts: 209 Location: North-East USA
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
WoefulOne wrote:
I was hoping to grow old with my wife and to spend our days/evenings having fun together.
frolicking in the green meadows by the lollipop stream? that kind of fun?
your in for one big disappointment about old age ....and marriage....and just about everything else in life ...
about the pills i think you have it all wrong, instead of being worried of not living to an old age why dont you be more grateful that you lived to early 20's because without modern medicine chances are you would have died in childhood if not earlier
on the other hand, life is such a piece of sh*t i dont know why you'd be grateful for anything so its kind of a paradox
and what is it with people's life goals being "i want to grow old together...bla bla bla...."- that is some boring depressing ****
how about since you now know for sure your days are numbered, you leave your wife, go join the FARC and live out your days being a badass guerilla fighter (really irrelevant if you dont believe in their cause)
that way when you die and they have to spend half a day digging a hole for your rotting corpse, people wont remember you as the "sick guy who wanted to be a historian" but as a guerilla fighter with balls of steel and the fastest heart rate in the batallion
just a thought
ps.: 20 guns?? you just found out about PO and you have 20 guns? im a hardcore doomer and all i have is a pistol...
its not how many guns you have its whether you have the stuff to actually point a gun at someone and pull the trigger...one AR15 is perfectly adequate _________________ Tyler_JC:
"I love how every conversation on this website, given enough time, will turn into a discussion of cannibalism."
““Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting””
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
I would never leave my wife. EVER. Perhaps to you having a good, happy, and fulfilled life is "boring" It's not for me. Peace and good times are all I want. So what if I want to grow old with my wife.
WIthout Modern Medicine I would have died when I was born. Not as a young child.
And what's wrong with being a Histoian. Actually I wanted to become a Military Historian. I am a Amatuer Military Historian, but I wanted the degree so I could do it and get payed for it. A dream.
Maybe you see life as a pice of crap, I don't. If you don't value life as so. Then you can fix that problem, and you know how to.
The fun I refer to is just relaxing in the great outdoors. Where it's quiet and peaceful.
When I go I won't remembered as the sick guy by any means, I'll be remembered for my qualitys in life. I value life, but I value my wifes even more. She is what is important to me above all else. The only real reason why I fear an early death. I want to be around to protect her for as long as I can.
Joined: Oct 04, 2007 Posts: 209 Location: North-East USA
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
WoefulOne wrote:
Peace and good times are all I want.
21st century isnt exactly shaping up to be a "good times and peace for all" kind of time, much more likely what you'll get is misery and war
life itself isnt a POS, it has become a PoS (for people like me) because we have too many people with your mindset, desperately clinging onto what is already a crumbling system, a world of peace and good times, guess what the world runs on misery and violence
ps.: never say never _________________ Tyler_JC:
"I love how every conversation on this website, given enough time, will turn into a discussion of cannibalism."
““Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting””
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
I won't ever say never. I know that we could very well be faced with this. But also it is important to note that is Oil wars get out of hand, well, we will most def. see a nuclear showdown. One that could lead to a man made ice age.
WHo knows what will actually take place 10 years from now. I've been researching some Alt. enerhy blogs and techs. Some of this stuff does look promising. Some new break thorughs of recent.
Also I liked Biodiesels, while not something for long term, it will provide a strudy bridge for short, I think. Let us hope.
EDIT: What is wropng with Hope?? What is wrong with clinging to what you know that is safe?? You are misrable because of that, if this is true you will be very misrable if the "powerdown" does in fact occur soon.
Joined: Oct 04, 2007 Posts: 209 Location: North-East USA
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
WoefulOne wrote:
But also it is important to note that if Oil wars get out of hand, well, we will most def. see a nuclear showdown. One that could lead to a man made ice age.
O RLY _________________ Tyler_JC:
"I love how every conversation on this website, given enough time, will turn into a discussion of cannibalism."
““Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting””
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12021 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
anarky321 wrote:
WoefulOne wrote:
I was hoping to grow old with my wife and to spend our days/evenings having fun together.
frolicking in the green meadows by the lollipop stream? that kind of fun?
your in for one big disappointment about old age ....and marriage....and just about everything else in life ...
sez the guy who hasn't even graduated university yet! _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Oct 04, 2007 Posts: 209 Location: North-East USA
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
its a fallacy to believe that you HAVE to experience everything in order to understand it well
you know that falling into a stream of lava is a horrible experience, yet you've never experienced it; some things you can infer from observation and questioning alone, not everything has to be tested out by you
ps.: i can already see this is going to end up as another cannibalism thread.... _________________ Tyler_JC:
"I love how every conversation on this website, given enough time, will turn into a discussion of cannibalism."
““Life is on the wire…the rest is just waiting””
Last edited by anarky321 on Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
Well yes. Something like if 12 nukes go off in the earths atmosphere in close intervals we could be thrust into a nuclear winter. Not the word could as being key. Still It is a no brainer that if energy wars erupt sooner rather than later a larger country will fire off nukes. Then other countrys will join the nuke fray. In the end who knows. One thing is certain. There will be enogh power and fuel to launch these warheads half way around the world.
So if we really go into a "powerdown" mode we'll see nuke exchanges before we see a small community working together in the face of long term survival.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12021 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
WoefulOne wrote:
So if we really go into a "powerdown" mode we'll see nuke exchanges before we see a small community working together in the face of long term survival.
See, that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If we go into "powerdown" we won't be fighting energy wars. Energy wars will be fought because we refuse to go into powerdown. Which is what we're doing now. If we did go into powerdown, we would stop fighting energy wars, which waste a great deal of energy. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
WoefulOne wrote:
I've read them all, the only reason why I said die off, was because I
had came upon that site as well, but chose not to read it.
Dieoff.com is a pretty good site with a lot of well researched
articles. But ya know, read it a little then go enjoy the sunset or something...
WoefulOne wrote:
I found Peak Oil Debunked and while it's some fresh air from LATOC.
I wonder if these guys are in denial??
Yeah, his name is in the dictionary under "denial".
One of those guys that always thinks: "oil will be back under $10
per barrel, just you wait..." Meanwhile the reality is oil is cresting
over $110 and it ain't heading down anytime soon.
WoefulOne wrote:
Oh, and yes my wife's family does depend.
Her sister has MS
Mother has bad depression and OCD issues.
Father needs BP meds
MY family
Mother needs insulin
Step father needs BP meds
my youger sister needs inhalers and breathing machine
The miracles of modern medicine... But hey, as I said medicine is not
going away completely in the next couple years. So if that's your
only concern you'll probably get to witness at least a little more
history before the end.
WoefulOne wrote:
We live in Texas. The U.S. is prjected to take the worst of it all.
Well, the best way to witness history is to be in the thick of it...
WoefulOne wrote:
It'll take some time to readjust.
Yeah, life's like that... I hear ya.
WoefulOne wrote:
If say all liquids peaked in 2010...
First thing, it looks like liquids peaked in 2005, and light sweet
crude peaked that's why going after heavy crude and tar sands has
been such a big thing. So presently We've been floundering trying
to maintain a plateau for the last couple years and with a lot of big
hitters like Mexico in decline, US peaked in the 1970's, and average
world production is probably heading down. So even with our war
machine prodding the middle east, it's getting harder and harder to
maintain the supply that keeps our modern life running.
WoefulOne wrote:
Also can someone tell me I are confused. If say all liquids peakedin 2010, followed by shortages and what not, yet it's projected thatdemand will grow to 115 mbd in 2020, I think. How can that b if in 2010 oil shortages occur, then an economy cannot gorw anyfurther, right?
Demand can grow as more people are born. At some point, people
start dying because of lack of fuel/food and that's when demand
starts going down. The problem is, human population has been
doubling for quite some time like yeast. Now tiny humans are
covering the planet and have grown enough to see from space.
We're reaching the limits of the planet and demand can be
expected to keep doubling along with people until people start
dying in big numbers or stop making more. And people don't want
to stop making more.
WoefulOne wrote:
ANd in turn prices would drop because if that, not right away of course, but they would drop.
No. If there are enough rare metals to replace all our electricity with
solar panels, we still need petrochemicals to live the lives we
expect. Our food production, transport, everything mined, every can
on the shelf, every box all use fossil fuels. We couldn't replace all
our fuel needs with ten times the growing area we have or solar,
even slashing all the rainforests won't cut it. Anyway I'll just
summarize like this, as people beg and scream for heat in the
winter, fuel and food, no prices won't be headed down.
Are there factors or inventions that might be able to cut demand?
* Nuclear, as in bombs.
* Starvation, the South West US is progressing into a 99 year
megadrought, other part of the US will also suffer from
desertification opening up the possibility that the US may lose most
of it's cropland in the next 50 years.
* Strict birth policies and changing to third world living standards.
* Strict birth policies and a combination of technologies such as
"Toe to heel air injection" to mine unminable petroleum supplies,
solar and approaches like sequestering carbon with Agrichar.
* ...
Continuing as we have been is not on the list.
WoefulOne wrote:
I want to hold hope that we as a race can overcome this.
I hope so too, getting our numbers down is the main problem. Well
that and catastrophic climate change may challenge this possibility,
but there is hope.
WoefulOne wrote:
One thing I despise about Bush is the fact we have more enemies
and less friends because of him. And he threw us back into debt. At least Clinton got us out of it.
Well I'm a Clinton fan too. But you're probably not going to like
hearing this, most of Clinton's success was luck.
His balanced budget initiatives were some of his greatest
achievements, but the success of the economy mostly coincided
with energy production. During Clinton the world had more energy
flowing then ever before and consequently low energy prices and
high profits for businesses. Now the picture has changed,
personally I don't like Bushes resource war in Iraq, but for America
to remain a superpower (at least for the next few years),
banks/business interest needed to secure access to oil. Saudi
Arabia isn't maxed out because of our war, Mexican production has
peaked but not because of our war. The world is running out and
what we are witnessing are resource wars. And I say witnessing
because certainly neither you nor I personally choose to invade for
oil. And I'll tell you, if you don't believe peak oil is a big issue
behinds the scenes in Washington, really there's little question they
are aware. Bush being an X-oilman and Cheney who has spoken
about peak oil long before it was well known.
WoefulOne wrote:
I hope Matt Savinar is wrong. Upon further reviewing of his site, I
wonder if he uses it to sell things from his store?
Actually Matt makes a lot less money then he would if he wasn't
telling the truth. Think about it this way, what sells? Solutions sell
and he is talking about a problem with no solution. Lots of people
dieing is not a solution. He has ads for things that interest people
who visit his site, like solar power and books. But really, he would
make a lot more money if didn't tell it like it is. Personally I don't like
Matt, but he's not in it for the money.
WoefulOne wrote:
As of now I am in debt of about 23,000 I won't be able to pay that off anytime soon.
On the plus side, the US dollar is heading into the toilet your debt
along with it. So don't feel too bad, as the dollar looses value so
does your debt.
WoefulOne wrote:
My head is hurting I've been up all morning researching things.
And it doesn't look so bleak. I will hold out hope.
Honestly, it may take a few months to a few years to really get an
in depth understanding of all the issues. Though I won't feel bad if
you disagree with everything I've said. And personally, don't give
yourself too much of a headache or worry that the world is going to
end on Monday, (you have at least till Friday). And try to be
satisfied for now that you're onto something important.
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2740 Location: The Entropisphere
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
Quote:
Well yes. Something like if 12 nukes go off in the earths atmosphere in close intervals we could be thrust into a nuclear winter.
Don't want to be picky but I'm going to be...
The one's in the atmosphere don't throw up as much dust as the ones that go off on the ground. A lot of nukes went off when we were doing above ground testing. I don't know what we need to get a new ice age but I think we can tone it down a bit a say that since nukes are the most effective when they go off in the atmosphere and that it takes a lot of them to kick up enough dust to change the climate, that if we prepare for one or two lost growing seasons than one has greatly increased their odds.
Focusing on Ice Ages is just looking for a reason to do no planning or preparing, whats the point? right? One to three years is doable. Heck 10 years is doable if you decide to.
The larger point is you have a choice. Start preparing when and as you can or just be depressed because your expectations have proved unrealistic. The former is useful and responsible. The latter is more common but a lot less helpful. _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
-Friedrich von Schiller
"What I try, may not work. It may be ineffective. It might even turn out in the pages of history to be the exact wrong thing to do, but I'm going to try to do what I c
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: New to "Peak Oil"
WoefulOne wrote:
Well yes. Something like if 12 nukes go off in the earths atmosphere in
close intervals we could be thrust into a nuclear winter. Not the word
could as being key. Still It is a no brainer that if energy wars erupt
sooner rather than later a larger country will fire off nukes. Then other
countrys will join the nuke fray. In the end who knows. One thing is
certain. There will be enogh power and fuel to launch these warheads
half way around the world.
So if we really go into a "powerdown" mode we'll see nuke exchanges
before we see a small community working together in the face of long
term survival.
Nuclear exchange is a possibility, but IMHO our present climate change
situation is more serious then fallout or nuclear winter. And no,
even 12 ground nukes isn't going to dim the sky's for a day.
That number is way too low.
Also I liked Biodiesels, while not something for long term, it will
provide a strudy bridge for short, I think. Let us hope.
It won't. Biofuels = burning crops and with building drought issues,
depleted aquifers (used for crop production) and demand for food
causing us to draw down grain stocks. The only thing biofuels
demand is going to do is cause more stripping of rainforest's so we
can import more fuels and that's not going to scale up much more.
Celulistic ethanol is a hope, if we can get it working on large scale.
Corn ethanol and biodiesel are dead ends.
anarky321 wrote:
ps.: i can already see this is going to end up as another cannibalism thread....
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