Don’t worry, just a little bump - $70 is just around the corner. Short traders just keep making those margin calls, mortgage the house if you have to. Fortunes await you! PO is for pansies and doomers. At $70 short some more ..... it is going back to $22 .... the world is awash with oil ........ reality has nothing to do with it, its all in those charts!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 623 Location: No man's land
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
In 2007, the average sea surface temperatures in the Arctic Ocean were 3.5 degrees C above the average for the last 100 years.
See the thread here titled "Record Ice Loss in the Arctic" and start reading on page 43 with article titled "German Scientists warn of changes in Arctic Ocean circulation". It seems pretty straightforward to me that a lot of that extra heat from lower latitudes is being transported to the Arctic ocean where it can be dissipated. _________________ "It is no measure of health to be deemed sane in an insane society" J. Krishnamurti
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
This study is to better determine and understand how heat moves
around the planet and will be useful for refining climate models.
This still doesn't change any of our land global warming problems. This
sounds more like it will just help us understand how the oceans work.
Quote:
Willis says that global climate models do not adequately account for
the effect of clouds and they have no current instrumentation to
measure global cloud behavior.
This is a pretty good answer, if you like boring factual answers...
Instead lets hear what a bunch of shallow dumbasses have to say about this!
A bunch of dumbasses wrote:
Gaffer wrote:
.... These diving instruments suggest that the oceans have not
warmed up at all over the past four or five years.....
Hmmmmmm, a very inconvenient truth! Al Gore will be pi$$ed.
Fresh Wind wrote:
Or it could mean scientists aren't quite understanding what their
robots are telling them.
More likely, the robots aren't telling them what they want to hear.
DManA wrote:
I heard this story. They layed out two possible alternatives;
1. Global arming is taking a break
2. We don't understand the data.
Not mentioned as the possibility that we are going into a period of
global cooling. That is because nothing in their theology could
account for human generated global cooling.
My son was in the car and I pointed out the blatant bias in this
piece so at least it was a teaching moment.
What shallow people like this don't think about is:
* There are factors like global dimming. We know soot from China's
coal plants are blanketing the oceans with clouds of soot and simply
cooling them with shade. And this goes along with the scientists
statement about refinements they need to do with their cloud modeling.
* Simply it may be that the arctic is where all this heat is ending up.
That means air currents are moving more heat up north then
expected. But hey, with the unusual weather we've been having,
freak tornadoes in the north... Changes in the average amount of
heat carried by air currents wouldn't be surprising.
* Arctic melting caused by global warming may cause climate
change like cooling of the oceans, the melting ice caps may even
cause a mini ice age. It's like dropping a great big icecube into a drink.
Yeah and Al Gore and everyone else studying the climate has talked
about this. Ice Age may happen as a consequence of global warming
melting the poles.
(The following is more sarcasm...)
But hey, instead of calling this a great study that will help scientists
to refine climate models, most people will take this as another
excuse to drive their SUV's more and burn their tires in their backyards!
No offense against you rdsaltpower. I'm a little jaded here because
the general reaction of people on the internet has been pretty
dumb regarding this and so many other scientific studies.
Science is hard, ranting against "Al Gore" is easy. So it's not
surprising there are a lot of stupid reactions to this study.
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6283 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
Quote:
So with the oceans not warming, you would expect to see less sea level rise. Instead, sea level has risen about half an inch in the past four years. That's a lot.
Willis says some of this water is apparently coming from a recent increase in the melting rate of glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica.
"But in fact there's a little bit of a mystery. We can't account for all of the sea level increase we've seen over the last three or four years," he says.
They're missing something very big, apparently. God knows what it is. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
Zardoz wrote:
They're missing something very big, apparently. God knows what it is.
There are a lot of big that we are still trying to understand. But what
he said about needing to study cloud cover suggests Global Dimming to me.
Presently the water droplets and soot from industry are blocking
10 - 30% of the sun over much of the planet. This is unquestionably
having a big impact on ocean temperature, though the full extent is unknown.
Quote:
BBC News wrote:
But perhaps the most alarming aspect of global dimming is that it
may have led scientists to underestimate the true power of the
greenhouse effect.
They know how much extra energy is being trapped in the Earth's
atmosphere by the extra carbon dioxide we have placed there.
What has been surprising is that this extra energy has so far
resulted in a temperature rise of just 0.6 degree Celsius.
This has led many scientists to conclude that the present-day
climate is less sensitive to the effects of carbon dioxide than it was,
say, during the ice age, when a similar rise in CO2 led to a
temperature rise of six degrees Celsius.
But it now appears the warming from greenhouse gases has been
offset by a strong cooling effect from dimming - in effect two of our
pollutants have been canceling each other out.
This means that the climate may in fact be more sensitive to the
greenhouse effect than previously thought.
"In the aftermath of 9/11 the entire US fleet was grounded..."
"DR David Travis suspected the grounding might make a small but
detectable change to the climate. But what he observed was
both immediate and dramatic.
We found that the change in temperature range during those three
days was just over one degrees C."
In 2001 when all the planes and contrail clouds were removed from
the sky, that resulted in an immediate 1 degree Celsius jump in
average temperature. Closing other industries as well would have
had an even more dramatic effect.
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
Zardoz wrote:
Quote:
So with the oceans not warming, you would expect to see less sea level rise. Instead, sea level has risen about half an inch in the past four years. That's a lot.
Willis says some of this water is apparently coming from a recent increase in the melting rate of glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica.
"But in fact there's a little bit of a mystery. We can't account for all of the sea level increase we've seen over the last three or four years," he says.
They're missing something very big, apparently. God knows what it is.
Could be transport to the deep ocean, and thermal expansion there. Just a semi-educated guess.
Joined: Apr 28, 2005 Posts: 3382 Location: West shore Lake Eire, MI, USA
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
Global dimming makes me worry a lot. For instance, if we do end up in the Greater Depression so many of us expect one of the first things to happen will be a sharp fall off in air travle. If the middle class are scrimping to get by they will not be flying to Florida or Arizona to go on vacation. Hence I expect air craft miles travled to fall sharply in any depression type scenario. If that turns out to be true then a large share of the global dimming effect will dissipate as the economy slows, leading in turn to a rapid spike up in temperature that might catch the vast majority totally by surprise.
One of the things people tend to forget, the Polar routes over the Arctic ocean are a favorite for most airlines traveling intercontinental from Asia to North America, it is a nice shortcut. Cut travle between Asia and North America, say because bussiness execs telecomunicate instead of physically travle due to high fuel prices, and suddenly the Arcit is getting a bigger dose of sunshine in summer than it was before the slowdown. _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: Dec 11, 2005 Posts: 430 Location: albuquerque
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:28 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Quote:
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.
Joined: Feb 06, 2006 Posts: 165 Location: passaic, new jersey
Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
Tanada, I dont' worry about global warming that much, it's easy to cool it by just flying an airplane and spilling some dust to block the sun light
I worry much more about global cooling if you pollute air too much and it blocks the sun a lot, it would be hard to clean it up and unblock the sun. Who would want to stop manufacturing and lay of people to clean the air? How much time it would take for the air to clean itself even if pollution was stopped?
it's always easier to climb the tree than get down
Joined: Dec 02, 2005 Posts: 6283 Location: Oil-addicted Southern Californucopia
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:29 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
jdumars wrote:
GAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
For as long as I've been hearing about Global Warming, they've been saying that we could also see more extreme winters along with the overall general warming trend.
I'm with you, Jason. Why does everybody act so surprised about one colder, snowier winter? They were predicting it twenty years ago. _________________ "Thank you for attending the oil age. We're going to scrape what we can out of these tar pits in Alberta and then shut down the machines and turn out the lights. Goodnight." - seldom_seen
Joined: Aug 26, 2005 Posts: 981 Location: "Mad as Hell !"
Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Global Warming's missing Ocean Heat
billp wrote:
Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
Quote:
Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming
Over the past year, anecdotal evidence for a cooling planet has exploded. China has its coldest winter in 100 years. Baghdad sees its first snow in all recorded history. North America has the most snowcover in 50 years, with places like Wisconsin the highest since record-keeping began. Record levels of Antarctic sea ice, record cold in Minnesota, Texas, Florida, Mexico, Australia, Iran, Greece, South Africa, Greenland, Argentina, Chile -- the list goes on and on.
This is just some more tripe from DailyTech.com science blog. The original author of the piece never injected "Twelve-month long drop in world temperatures wipes out a century of warming" into his article. It was put there by them. It doesn't even come close to matching up to the factual data. It got pulled by the usual media denial crowd and went flying around the Internet as some kind of revelation.
Referencing NASA GISS, it says:
Quote:
The year 2007 tied for second warmest in the period of instrumental data, behind the record warmth of 2005, in the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) analysis.
As for this seasons presumed coldest in a century, you only have to refer to NOAA.
NOAA: Coolest Winter Since 2001 for U.S., Globe
Quote:
While some areas of the Southeast were wetter than average during the winter, overall precipitation for the region was near average. At the end of February, two-thirds of the Southeast remained in some stage of drought, with more than 25 percent in extreme-to- exceptional drought.
Drought conditions intensified in Texas with areas experiencing drought almost doubling from 25 percent at the end of January to 45 percent at the end of February.
Quote:
The combined global land and ocean surface temperature was the 16th warmest on record for the December 2007-February 2008 period (0.58°F/0.32°C above the 20th century mean of 53.8°F/12.1°C). The presence of a moderate-to-strong La Nina contributed to an average temperature that was the coolest since the La Nina episode of 2000-2001.
Quote:
Record Northern Hemisphere snow cover extent in January was followed by above average snow cover for the month of February. Unusually high temperatures across much of the mid- and high-latitude areas of the Northern Hemisphere in February began reducing the snow cover, and by the end of February, snow cover extent was below average in many parts of the hemisphere.
While there has been little trend in snow cover extent during the winter season since records began in the late 1960s, spring snow cover extent has been sharply lower in the past two decades as global temperatures have increased.
February Temperature Highlights
Quote:
February was 61st warmest in the contiguous U.S. and 15th warmest globally on record. For the U.S., the temperature was near average, 0.2°F (0.1°C) above the 20th century average of 34.7°F (1.5°C), which was 2.0°F (1.1°C) warmer than February 2007.
Globally, the February average temperature was 0.68°F/0.38°C above the 20th century mean of 53.8°F/12.1°C.
LINK: NOAA _________________ The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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