fuel price in the uk, and people's habbits

Winterman · Coal Joined: Mar 23, 2008 Posts: 1

Here in the uk there is a high tax on fuel. This makes the cost of fuel considerably more expensive than in the US. A litre of diesel fuel costs me around 1.05 uk pounds. A pound is worth approximately 2 dollars, so that's 2.10 dollars, and a U.S. liquid gallon is 3.785411784 litres, so that's $7.95 for a U.S. gallon of diesel. According to a website I have just looked up, the New England price for diesel is $4.12. Obviously there are other factors to take into account, like U.S. salaries and the cost of living generally. But here in the UK people still sit in queues of traffic burning up fuel. This fuel is precious and we should as a country conserve it for more important uses like heating, lighting, and cooking. But that isn't going to happen if it is left to market forces. Clearly people can afford to waste fuel even at a price of $7.95. A recent TV programme showed that people will make a journey in the car of less than two miles, even if it is quicker to walk! I drive to work each day and it is 7 miles. I get 10 miles to the litre, so I am paying about 1.50 pounds for the round trip. The same trip on the bus would cost me 4.00 and would take much longer. I will be cycling in the summer, honestly.

So my conclusion is we can't wait for market forces to solve this problem. We need government action to either make public transport much cheaper, or to make private cars prohibatively expensive, or just prohibited.

dorlomin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 1061

You forget why petrol and diesel are so expensive, tax. Tax money does not leave the economy but is used to pay for universal health care and unemployment benefits. If the cost of oil ever got to such extreames in America theywould have enormous balance of trade issues and inflation. The dollar would weaken every year to compensate for the outflow of dollars. The only thing that dollars of that magnitude could buy is the American equities market.

What you have also not quite thought of is the difference in distances. With very expensive oil driving two miles is a lazy way to blow a couple of pound. With Americans now living in so called exburbs there daily communtes are often in the order of 40 miles. A world of difference in terms of disposible income.

The density of housing makes buses much more economic in Europe as well.

In the UK Ken Livingstones congestion charge has been a very succesfull method of reducing car miles.

MarkJames · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 25, 2007 Posts: 63

We'll never have public transportation in many of the suburban and rural areas due to low population density and great distances between towns, villages and cities. This is also why we use heating oil, kerosene and propane as opposed to natural gas. Some of our family, friends and customers have households where the parents and kids all drive their own vehicles hundreds of miles per week. People that live in the suburbs and rural areas are also more likely to have multiple vehicles, boats, waverunners, quads, snowmobiles, lawn & garden tractors, snowblowers, plow trucks and tow vehicles.

Back in the days of big industry, many people worked the same jobs and same shifts for years, so carpooling and park and ride carpooling worked well. These days people change jobs often, work two jobs or work odd hours so carpooling isn't an option. My wife often works in areas 100 miles apart. We do contracting work, deliver fuel and perform on-site service work for customers more than 50 miles from our shop. On occasion we'll travel much further than that.

FishAreBest

If the government really wanted us to drive less, they would have increased fuel tax in last week's budget.

Instead, they decided to freeze fuel tax and instead ramped up the VED (annual vehicle ownership tax). In my case, from 200GBP to 300GBP.

I'm not sure how this is supposed to persuade people to cycle to work instead of drive.

Battle_Scarred_Galactico · Intermediate Crude Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 970

Cycling is heaven when theres' no cars (or especially lorries) around, but quickly becomes hell on Earth when they are.

The Government knows people won't get out of their cars due to how bad public transport is, so they use them as cash cows, but they must keep the cost under a certain threshold otherwise the economy would tank. Truckers are already at breaking point, so I'm suprised we haven't seen another protest yet.
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Ainan · Heavy Crude Joined: Feb 18, 2008 Posts: 243

I have decided to buy a car in the spring. I think i would still buy one if petrol was at £2 a litre. Assuming oil would have to be at over $500 a barrel to get to that level.

It may seem stupid buying a car knowing about peak oil but i'm fed up with British f**king rail. Its both cheaper, quicker and far less stressful to drive. I think people on this site don't realize how cheap petrol really is. £20 will take you or 5 people 200 miles in an average car, if you took the train it would be about £50 or £250 for 5 people, it will take half the time and in the comfort of your own car. Even if the price of petrol was £2.50 a litre it would be worth it, the same cost as a rail ticket but much quicker and nicer. If there were 5 of you sharing a car petrol would have to reach £12.50 a litre, thats almost £50 a gallon. Don't trust my math here i've spent the last 6 hours on and off trains, but would a barrel not be at $4500 a barrel then? Assuming taxes and production costs don't rise, which of course they will but it will still be many $1000s.

The cost of maintaining a car is is probably a months wages at the moment, cars can be had for next to nothing, the main cost is insurance and taxes. But by having a car you can get a job far from where you live, save time and money by shopping in bulk at supermarkets with ease.

I realize at this point i'm ranting but the freedom a car offers is incredible, back when i had a car i could just drive off to a rural beach with friends when we get our allocated one day of summer a year. Buses will only take you to a few of the most popular seaside towns and take three times longer.

dorlomin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 1061

Battle_Scarred_Galactico · Intermediate Crude Joined: Apr 07, 2005 Posts: 970

Smudger

agree a shift in the tax system to public trasnport will help. corss rail will happen which helps plus far more bike shelters at the station etc. need to get to the point where it costs more to use car than train/bus. but to do that need to increase carrying capacity of public trasnport. I know there has been a 40% increase in passengers but you have to put in place profitable infrastructure to handle twice this amount.

s0cks

Ainan · Heavy Crude Joined: Feb 18, 2008 Posts: 243