Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6173 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
I was astonished to go to a hardware store the other day and see a bag of 10-10-10 selling for roughly twice what it cost a year ago.
However, I wasn't too worried because I've figured out how to make my own fertilizer.
My worm-composting operation produces "manure tea," about 1 quart per week or a little less. I mix this with ten parts of water and get a great liquid fertilizer. I am now using it exclusively on my food plants and trees.
I store the manure tea in plastic jugs; it's odorless and seems to keep very well.
If you buy or make a worm composter, be sure it has a spigot or collecting pan at the bottom so you can drain off this precious liquid. I view it as far more important than the compost, which is produced in much smaller quantities (not enough to be of much practical use).
Can anyone advise as to how "complete" this fertilizer might be, and how potent? Should I be diluting it more? Less? _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
Good questions Heiny.
My worm composter produces copious quantities of tea from my kitchen waste that I use for all my fruit trees--including 15 blueberries, three plums and two citrus. And I still have too much left over.
I've already planted my new property with 15 fruit trees, 9 nuts, and many blueberries. I wonder how much I will need. Will my kitchen supply everything? What is the npk from food scrapes? _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Char-amended soils have shown 50 - 80 percent reductions
in nitrous oxide emissions and reduced runoff of phosphorus into
surface waters and leaching of nitrogen into groundwater. As a soil
amendment, biochar significantly increases the efficiency of and
reduces the need for traditional chemical fertilizers, while greatly
enhancing crop yields. Experiments have shown yields for some
crops can be doubled and even tripled.
steam_cannon wrote:
Different names for the same thing: "biochar" or "agrichar" or "terra preta"
Apparently it does make a good fertilizer and stays in the soil a long time...
wiki wrote:
Origin of terra preta
For a long time, the origins of the Amazonian dark earths were not
immediately clear and several theories were considered. One idea
was that they resulted from ashfall from volcanoes in the Andes,
since they occur more frequently on the brows of higher terraces.
Another theory considered formation as a result of sedimentation in
Tertiary lakes or in recent ponds.
However, because of their elevated charcoal content and the
common presence of pottery remains, it is now widely accepted that
these soils are a product of indigenous soil management involving
a labor intensive technique termed slash-and-char. The technique is
differentiated from slash and burn by a lower temperature burn
and in being a tool for soil improvement. Amending soil with low
temperature charcoal produced from a mix of wood and leafy
biomass (termed biochar) has been observed to increase the
activity of arbuscular mycorrhizal fungi. It is theorized that terra
preta self-propagates via this mechanism; a virtuous cycle
established as the fungus spreads from the charcoal, fixing
additional carbon and stabilizing the soil with glomalin, and
increasing nutrient availability for nearby plants. The widespread
peregrine earthworm Pontoscolex corethrurus (Oligochaeta:
Glossoscolecidae), which thrives after burning of the rainforest, due
to its tolerance of a low content of the soil in organic matter, has
been shown to ingest pieces of charcoal and to mix them in a finely
ground form with the mineral soil, pointing to its possible role in the
formation of terra preta.
About 10% of the original terra comum appears to have converted
to terra preta. Whether all Amazonian dark earth was intentionally
created for soil improvement or whether the lightest variants are a
by-product of habitation is not clear at present time. This is in part
due to the varied features of the dark earths throughout the
Amazon Basin. Thus suggesting the existence of an extensive
ancient native civilization dating back 500 to 2500 years bp.
How is agrichar made?
The process is similar to making charcloth, making charcoal or
producing woodgas. Many people know that if you put some layers
of cotton cloth in a tin into a fire, the tin will leak flammable smoke
that may ignite into flames. And when you take the tin out of the
fire the cotton will have turned to thin charcoal. The flammable
smoke that came out of the tin is Hydrogen, CO and hydrocarbon
molecules breaking free of the cotton cloth due to heat. The charred
cotton is the same stuff as agrichar. You can do this with leaves,
sticks, weeds, all sorts of wastes.
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
steam_cannon doesn't this process use lots of energy and isn't that what we are trying avoid? Until I see some kind of energy accounting I have to believe that just composting or turning in the plant material is the way to go. _________________ ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
pstarr wrote:
steam_cannon doesn't this process use lots of energy and isn't that
what we are trying avoid? Until I see some kind of energy accounting I
have to believe that just composting or turning in the plant material is
the way to go.
* The process of making charcoal uses the energy that bacteria would
use to make it into compost. And even though the burning process
releases carbon dioxide, the process puts more carbon in then goes out.
It is carbon negative and very elegant.
* It adds carbon to the soil for the long term (thousands of years),
where as rotted leaves continue to decompose. Agrichar cuts
compost needs and is known to reduce nitrogen fertilizer needs.
* The carbon provides a place for beneficial soil bacterial to live,
adding beneficial soil bacteria. So in that regard it acts much like
compost tea, without carting compost water around.
* Carbon in the soil tends to hold fertilizers in place instead of letting
them run off when it rains.
* Carbon holds water in the soil reducing irrigation needs.
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
Regarding compost liquids
Compost liquids are very nutrient and excellent for farming. And
Heineken's use of "Compost Leachate?" may be ok, though I've seen
some pages about the practice being discouraged for large farms as
it can spread around E coli and other bacteria you may not want to
get on food crops. If it's not being sprayed it should be ok. Making
compost tea is another option and recipes exist for how much water
to add. So if he makes compost tea instead, he might be able to
better calculate fertilizer needs and make more liquid fertilizer from
a volume of leaves.
Anyway, here are some articles...
Compost Teas vs. Compost Extracts
Quote:
Compost Teas vs. Compost Extracts
First, it may be helpful to share some common terminology and
practices associated with compost teas. How do compost teas differ
from compost extracts or compost leachates?
Compost Leachate
Compost windrow leachate—the dark-colored solution that leaches
out of the bottom of the compost pile—most likely will be rich in
soluble nutrients; but, in the early stage of composting it may also
contain pathogens. It would be viewed as a pollution source if
allowed to run off-site. Compost leachate needs further
bioremediation and is not suitable or recommended as a foliar spray.
Compost Extract
Compost watery extract—made from compost suspended in a barrel
of water for 7 to 14 days, usually soaking in a burlap sack—a
centuries-old technique. The primary benefit of the extract will be a
supply of soluble nutrients, which can be used as a liquid fertilizer.
Compost Tea
Compost tea, in modern terminology, is a compost extract brewed
with a microbial food source—molasses, kelp, rock dust, humic-fulvic
acids. The compost-tea brewing technique, an aerobic process,
extracts and grows populations of beneficial microorganisms.
Summary
Compost teas are distinguished from compost extracts both in
method of production and in the way they are used. Teas are
actively brewed with microbial food and catalyst sources added to
the solution, and a sump pump bubbles and aerates the solution,
supplying plenty of much-needed oxygen. The aim of the brewing
process is to extract beneficial microbes from the compost itself,
followed by growing these populations of microbes during the 24-
to 36-hour brew period. The compost provides the source of
microbes, and the microbial food and catalyst amendments promote
the growth and multiplication of microbes in the tea. Some
examples of microbial food sources: molasses, kelp powder, and
fish powder. Some examples of microbial catalysts: humic acid,
yucca extract, and rock dust.
Compost tea research enters its second year
Study aims to shed light on current debates over the safety and efficacy of compost tea as an organic material
Is compost tea the new compost?
The use of compost teas--liquid fertilizers made by soaking compost
in water--is probably almost as old as the use of compost itself. In
recent years, however, a new generation of farmers has begun
reporting dramatic results from using compost teas to boost plant
health and help manage plant pathogens. Scientists have been
seeking to identify the constituent microorganisms and nutrients
present in compost teas and to explain how and why they impact
agroecosystems. Entrepreneurs have been busily inventing and
marketing new contraptions for brewing the stuff. And last but not
least, the National Organic Program (NOP) is struggling to develop
official language to regulate its use in organic production....
...Compost tea samples are also being tested for E. coli, the
bacteria at the center of concerns that compost tea use might
spread human pathogens. One of the researchers' primary
objectives is to develop reliable guidelines for on-farm production of
safe, quality compost tea...
...Plants receiving regular doses of compost tea produced larger,
better potatoes than both the nutrient-ingredient-only and the
untreated control plants. Marketable yields in the compost tea plots
were between 18 and 19 percent higher than in the untreated plots
and about 15 percent higher than in the nutrient-only plots.
Compost tea-treated plants also produced tubers that tested
higher for a range of nutrients, including iron, boron, potassium,
and manganese. Iron showed the biggest response, with levels an
astonishing 1700 percent higher in plants receiving compost tea
than in untreated plants.
There are commercial compost tea makers available, or you can
easily make one for small batches (5 gallons or so) using a bucket
and a fish tank pump. The more oxygen added to your tea as it is
brewing the better. This helps ensure that the 'good' bacteria will
flourish and the 'bad' bacteria won't. For even smaller batches you
can use the old fashioned 'sock' approach alone, just be sure your
tea gets plenty of sun and air during the brewing process.
'Sock' approach
1. Fill a 5 gallon bucket with 3½ to 4 gallons of water. If possible, do
not use 'softened' water as it will contain a high level of salts. Well
water, distilled water or filtered water is best as it won't contain
chlorine, which can kill off your beneficial bacteria. If using treated
tap water, let the water sit a day or more for the chlorine to
dissipate, or use a water treatment (available at pet fish stores) to
remove the chlorine. After the chlorine is removed from the water,
mix in 1 to 2 Tablespoons of molasses as food for the beneficial
bacteria you'll be growing in the tea.
2. Take two large large cotton socks and place a rock or other
weight at the toe ends to weight them down. Fill within three or
four inches of the top with compost. Pack it in loosely so that the
socks are flexible and the water will be able to mix through.
3. Tie off the tops of the socks with string or cord.
4. Add the socks to the chlorine-removed water and tie off to the
handle so they will stay suspended. Place in a well ventilated area
with sunlight, to help ensure the 'good' bacteria grow and the 'bad'
ones don't. Mix often, and bob the socks up and down from time to
time as you would a tea bag. Make sure the brew stays smelling
good - it should smell sweet and like clean fresh soil – foul smelling
brew is a sure sign that there's not enough oxygen and the 'bad'
bacteria are taking over.
For a larger batch, use a large trash can as your container. Add 25
to 30 gallons of water (and treat or otherwise age to remove any
chlorine), half of a 1 cubic-foot bag of bacteria-rich compost, and ½
cup molasses. Stir well and mix often. You will need to strain or filter
the tea after it has completed brewing.
If you like, this is the stage where you can add the fish tank
bubblers - bubble stones at the bottom of the bucket or can work
best. They will help ensure that you get a top-quality compost tea.
You can use the tea after just a few hours of steeping, but two
days of brewing is best to get the full benefit of the compost and bacteria.
Joined: Apr 03, 2004 Posts: 6375 Location: My Grandkids' Farm
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
Heineken wrote:
However, I wasn't too worried because I've figured out how to make my own fertilizer.
Not to get to far off topic Heniey but I think the thing you stumbled upon was the precursor to a big hike in the price of your loaf of bread, chicken McNugget and Sausage Biscuit.
Time to look around omnivorous gardeners. _________________ Make a plan and work it:
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 664 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
Fertilizer will be an issue that's for sure. Plans so far are Bock 14 comfrey, 8 plants so far, best source of K for the garden. Nitrogen sources, yep urine and small dead animals, including small fish from the local river. Phosphorus is the kicker, hard to come by naturally except bone. I've been buying kelp an placing it on the garden for micronutrients but its very expensive.
1. Keep it separate. The golden rule with urine use is to keep it
separate from other bodily wastes. Urine is clean and needs to be
kept that way. Pee in a bottle, or invest in a urine-separating toilet.
2. Use it fresh. We all know that stale urine smells. That's
ammonia, and it's made from nitrogen. The smellier your collected
urine, the less nutritious it will be for your plants, as well as being
unpleasant to apply.
3. Always dilute. Urine is too strong to be used neat on plants.
Dilute at least 5:1, and it can be diluted up to 10:1 for use on
tender plants and seedlings.
4. Water at the roots. It's good practice when watering not too
splash the leaves, but to water at the roots. This saves on
evaporation, and dry leaves are much more resistant to disease.
5. Spread it around. Urine can be salty, and using too much of it in
one place can harm plants. Use it throughout your garden so no
one area suffers from an overdose, and don't use it every time you
water a plant.
6. Feed hungry plants. The plants that will benefit most from urine
fertilizer are the ones with the highest nitrogen requirements. Try it
on leafy vegetables like cabbages and cauliflowers, corn, or
anything that needs a quick pick-me-up.
7. Other uses. Neat urine is too strong to be used directly on
plants, but it can be used as a weedkiller; a few applications,
especially if used on hot days, should finish off your weeds. It can
also be used neat as a winter spray for fruit trees, to discourage
fungal diseases.
8. Activate! A final use for urine in the garden is as a compost
activator. The nitrogen in urine will speed up the composting
process and kick start a slumbering heap.
urine is the fastest acting, highest nitrogen portion of mamalian
waste - not too adviseable to use it directly on yer plants, partly
because most plants don't need that much of a nitrogen hit, but
some folks use it in the compost pile
the manure from horse stalls is likely to have straw or sawdust
bedding included, which will absorb the urine, so the stall bedding is
usually higher in N than straight manure picked up from the field,
but also higher in carbon from the bedding
the Chinese are famous for using "night soil" in their farm fields -
some folks over at the soil/compost forum are keen on using
"recycled beer" in the compost for a nitrogen boost
...Also works for me as a rabbit, deer, and other critter repellant when
dribbled around the garden perimeter...
So Urine works great, just don't use old urine or save up urine.
Old Urine won't work well. And these days saving up urine could
make your neighbors think you're running a meth lab...
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
Fishman wrote:
Fertilizer will be an issue that's for sure. Plans so
far are Bock 14 comfrey, 8 plants so far, best source of K for the
garden. Nitrogen sources, yep urine and small dead animals, including
small fish from the local river. Phosphorus is the kicker, hard to come
by naturally except bone. I've been buying kelp an placing it on the
garden for micronutrients but its very expensive.
Bones for the garden, good idea. But where to find bones?
Humanure is rich in the vital elements of life; it is composed of 6%
nitrogen, 4% phosphorus and 2% potassium. And, it is available in
great abundance. Every human being produces about 1000 pounds
of humanure per year. Multiply that by the 6.5 billion people on the
planet and see how much annual fertilizer you come up with.
Briefly, the three critical elements to composting humanure are
1) Creating a compost pile that has the necessary carbon:
nitrogen (C/N) ratio for aerobic bacteria to break the manure down
into humus. The ideal C/N ratio for bacterial decomposition is 30:1.
Humanure has a C/N ratio of about 10/1 (it is high in nitrogen), so it
is necessary to add high carbon material like straw to the compost
pile. When properly built, a humanure compost pile does not give off
any offending odor.
2) Adequate oxygen. The bacteria that break down the manure
are aerobic—they require oxygen to function properly. Oxygen is
easily made available by using bulky, hollow material such as straw
in the compost pile.
3) Heat. Aerobic bacterial action produces heat; compost piles
can warm to 140 degree or higher. Complete pathogen destruction
in the humanure is guaranteed by arriving at a temperature of 143
degrees F for one hour, 122 degrees for one day, or 115 degrees
for a week.
4) Time. Letting the compost pile “cure” for a year after it has
finished the aerobic decomposition will offer a guarantee that all
potential pathogens are destroyed.
The end product of this decomposition process is humus—organic
matter rich in critical nutrients, like the composted steer or chicken
manure we purchase at the feed store. These nutrients give life to
plants, which give life to us, and then they go back into the living
soil in an endless cycle.
The Latin root for humus, humility, and humanure are all the same,
and translates as “earth.”
Joined: Sep 16, 2004 Posts: 4280 Location: Southwest WI
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
I think going to the local pond and catching a bunch of rough fish could be a cheap source of fertilizer. For other fish, you can eat the filets and bury the guts. Thats what i usually do. I buried a 10 walleye guts (20 inch fish) under my tomatoes before i planted them. You could buy an old blender and liquify the fish? _________________ "Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:36 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
Does soil is improved by digging a "grave" of organic non-eatable material? I mean taking a part of the land and digg a wide but not too deep hole, then putting pre-collected organic material there and just wait... after some time plant seeds. _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Sep 14, 2004 Posts: 6173 Location: Rural Virginia
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: An answer to rocketing fertilizer prices
Pops wrote:
Heineken wrote:
However, I wasn't too worried because I've figured out how to make my own fertilizer.
Not to get to far off topic Heniey but I think the thing you stumbled upon was the precursor to a big hike in the price of your loaf of bread, chicken McNugget and Sausage Biscuit.
Time to look around omnivorous gardeners.
No, I don't think this is off-topic at all, friend Pops.
I read (somewhere) that the cost of some fertilizers increased 200% in 2007. God knows where it's headed from here.
The consequences for the grocery store are obvious and scary.
Anyway, for small-scale producers and gardeners, worm brews make mucho sense. My worm operation is almost effortless.
I don't attempt to get scientific about it. After a lifetime of having to pay close attention to details (very, very carefully, as a scientific manuscript editor), I seem to have run through most of my bank account of patience. I just do what seems practical.
Kitchen and garden scraps in one end, rich brown soup out the other. Dilute tenfold and pour.
I really love the independence this provides me from the Southern States co-op.
About a week ago I applied the stuff to my strawberry beds. The plants were yellowish and ratty-looking after the winter, as usual. Now they are dark green, actively growing, and forming flowers.
(No, I wouldn't think of spray-applying it, Steam. Too much work. But thanks for alerting me to the potential Escherichia coli menace.) _________________ "Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog
"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap 
