Airline Bankruptcy/Merger/Layoffs Thread

mos6507

Does anyone have the numbers on how much fuel per capita is burned in a bus vs. a plane? As bad as it seems with plane travel, I think it's pretty fuel efficient with a full complement of passengers.

emersonbiggins

Ferretlover

You are going to have to want to get somewhere Real Bad to fly with Delta:

Delta raises fees for over-phone tickets
Airline raising fees for booking flights over phone, traveling with pets. 31 Mar 2008
ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines is imposing new or higher fees on a host of travelers, including frequent fliers, passengers traveling with pets and people booking their tickets over the phone. The fee changes, which go into effect Tuesday, come as Delta and its competitors try to boost revenue to offset record fuel prices. Delta did not say how much revenue it expected from the fee changes, but the parent company of United Airlines said new luggage fees would generate more than $100 million annually. The industry has had mixed success with fare increases.
"Desperate people do desperate things," said Minneapolis airline expert Terry Trippler.
Handling charge: One of the changes most likely to rankle frequent fliers is a new $25 "handling charge" for any Delta award ticket booked through a Delta representative that includes a segment on another airline. In the past, people who redeemed their Delta SkyMiles for free tickets on partner carriers like Northwest and Continental did not pay a "handling charge" whether they booked it on the phone or online. … The "handling charge" would be on top of the fee Delta charges for booking travel over the telephone, which is increasing Tuesday to $25 from $20. …
Delta (DAL, Fortune 500), based in Atlanta, also said carrying a pet in the cabin will cost $100 instead of $75, starting Tuesday. The oversize bag fee will be $150 instead of $100. The unaccompanied minor fee will be $100 on all flights instead of $50 for nonstop flights and $100 for connecting flights.
In February, UAL Corp.'s (UAUA, Fortune 500) United Airlines said it would in May start charging domestic passengers $25 to check in a second piece of luggage. Certain elite fliers are exempt from that fee.
On Friday, Northwest (NWA, Fortune 500) said it would begin charging $25 each way for a second checked bag. It also raised its fee for a third bag from $80 to $100. And it doubled its $25 fee for bags over 50 pounds.
Bring extra baggage--full of money
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cube · Fusion Joined: Mar 12, 2005 Posts: 3574

Tanada

Tanada

Speaking of Champion Air, since all 16 of their aircraft are Boeing 727 which was last produced in 1984, who if anyone will want to buy them for operation rather than scrapping them or parting them out? According to Wiki and other sources their average plane is 27 years old.
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TheDude

dorlomin · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Aug 05, 2007 Posts: 1062

Much higher costs and failing airlines sounds like a recipe for demand destruction.
Perhaps that would be better phrased as a shifting allocation of consumption of the remaining oil production.

I will guess that there will be a 'burning out of the market' of a number of concuser types as the full impact of $85+ oil is eventualy passed on to final consumers. At the moment truckers, airlines, Chinese refinaries and others are taking some of the pain of off consumers by taking (often involentary loses). I think there may be alot of instability as it depends on the willingness to sustain losses of the $100-$110 oil before the consumers feel the impact and the market reasserts how much of that oil the public is willing to consume. Business meetings in the US can be done by phone and family holidays can be a touch less exotic for the poorer. So as one by one those holding the price of oil back, break and pass on full price the volume of oil required at that price will change dropping its cost and potentialy bringing consumers back into the market.

Volatility of the price and demand of oil will be a hall mark I would guess. The Chinese may have less apatite for full priced oil and Americans for goods produced with full priced oil, families facing repossesion may be a touch less keen to do a driving holiday.

It seems a game of chicken and poker between those buying the oil and those selling it, a raw brutal example of Adam Smiths free hand breaking market distortions.

frankthetank

Pretty soon these:

Will be the new form of oceanic travel. Sure it might take a week and you'll have to bring your own food and water.

I think a river barge is still more efficient then a train, at least in carrying cargo.
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AirlinePilot

Have you guys not been paying attention? The government will let the little fish go, but when merger and consolidation dont solve the obvious problems good old Uncle Sam is going to step in and subsidize air travel. Look at what they are doing for the banks!

Air travel is a vital part of the economy and I predict within a few years the government will be propping the industry up for that very reason. Since we aren't doing much to mitigate PO its a viable short term solution. And its the wrong one too, but do you think they care?

Obviously we got some really big problems looming and I used to think some industries would crater well before others. Now I'm not so sure, its like a dam with a few small leaks. Before you know it the leaks get bigger If the root problem isn't addressed. You run out of fingers pretty quick before total failure. I see it happening similarly with the economy and the effects of PO. The failure of any significant portion of the economy brings everything else down with it too.

Maybe the airlines are the canaries, but they wont give you enough time to leave the mine before it caves in or explodes.

Tanada

Gazzatrone

This isn't an Airline affected by PO yet. I think the clue is in the first quoted paragraph

Old Planes, Loss of customers, Lack of Investors

Any business would suffer from outdated equipment, customer decline and no backing. It's a no brainer that you're going to go outof business.

When the big boys start to really feel the squeeze, that's when PO will begin to bite. They'll carry on dipping into profits in order to exist. But when that becomes a non-viable solution, I'm afraid you can write PO off as a cause for these companies going to the wall.

Yes I know they mentioned the $110 pb situation, but is this affecting other airlines in such a fashion? No.
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shortonoil · Fission Joined: Dec 02, 2004 Posts: 2684 Location: VA USA

Continental Airline has gotten into big trouble. Its spring ticket sales are wrapped up in munies, and with the collapse of the ARB market they can no longer access their money. With the credit markets pounded as they are, they may not be able to borrow it short term either.

Tanada

I missed this report back in January, aparently my prediction that the majors will be ditching their least efficient planes has already been happening before our very eyes.

NWA grounding DC-9

frankthetank

ATA files for bankruptcy...

http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/03/news/companies/ata_bankruptcy/index.htm?cnn=yes
_________________
"Oil is going up because we use too much oil, and the capacity to replace reserves is dwindling"
-President Bush 11/07/07