Joined: Mar 12, 2007 Posts: 890 Location: As close as I can get to the beginning of the pipe.
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
In the end it will come down to international barter of real assets. Forget currencies and deficits. It will be, "I have a tanker full of Saudi oil. How much wheat will you give me for the tanker-full?" The micro-economy and the macro-economy will have to revert to barter.
And those without food or oil to barter will lose. They will be forced to fall back on whatever there is existent in their countries, and dieoff will occur. _________________ "For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth; to know the worst and provide for it." --Patrick Henry
Riots from Haiti to Bangladesh to Egypt over the soaring costs of basic foods have brought the issue to a boiling point and catapulted it to the forefront of the world's attention, the head of an agency focused on global development said Monday.
"This is the world's big story," said Jeffrey Sachs, director of Columbia University's Earth Institute.
"The finance ministers were in shock, almost in panic this weekend," he said on CNN's "American Morning," in a reference to top economic officials who gathered in Washington. "There are riots all over the world in the poor countries ... and, of course, our own poor are feeling it in the United States."....
Also, said Sachs, "climate shocks" are damaging food supply in parts of the world. "You add it all together: Demand is soaring, supply has been cut back, food has been diverted into the gas tank. It's added up to a price explosion."
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
Couldn't resist the chip shop post.
Food riots - cost of food rising quick - Why ?- Has the population suddenly increased 10%, are there any crop / animal plagues (well, yes, but not big enough to trigger current rises).
Whats going on ? - Well, I have a theory, more a thought. Now i'm no commie (I own shares), but there is an old marxist phrase, "A nation's wealth is measured by what it creates"
Trouble is, the "west" dosen't create much wealth anymore. Thats done by the "east".
To maintain the status-quo, balance the books so to speak, the west needs a financial top-up now and again.
We therfore see the governments raid pension schemes (UK), oil price hikes, housing bubbles, stock market collapses, etc etc.
All designed to part us from our money.
The governments, banks, "them", bilderbergers, you, me, need more & more money to "run things", this is how they do it.
Now there getting ruthless - there doing it with food.
In a way, I hope I'm right, as if so when the system is sufficiently "topped up" (current financial crisis) then we MAY return to normality.
Don't "Bite my head off", Folks, Its just a thought.
Regards GASMON _________________ Oiyl be back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
Twilight wrote:
You are not entirely wrong. A portion of your taxes is spent ensuring the playing field is not level. However, the ultimate beneficiary is you, the man in the street, relatively speaking to a far greater extent than any "elite".
Mainly agree, Twilight.
Though at the moment, the only "benefit" I currently see is rising prices. I'm no politician, statistician or financial wizard, just a plain old gas distribution engineer.
Frightening thing is, (and other threads I read also state), that what I thought would start to happen, slowly, in 5, 10, maybe 15 years time is happening right now, right quick, and right across the board.
Gasmon _________________ Oiyl be back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joined: Sep 17, 2006 Posts: 623 Location: No man's land
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
This cannot be fully blamed on biofuels...there were widespread crop failures in Asia this past winter due to anomalous weather. It is becoming harder and harder for farmers to grow a crop. _________________ "It is no measure of health to be deemed sane in an insane society" J. Krishnamurti
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
Let me tell you something that may shock you.
Biofuels idea was introduced in order to begin the worldwide famine.
We are so stupid we burn corn and think it is saving the earth.
You can sell a sucker anything.
It worked.
Anyway, the signal has been given, and it is starting to come apart now, bulging seams giving way.
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
mos6507, lol that was funny. But I think most of us agree on something: biofuels are not a solution and should not be implemented. _________________ anagami.net
Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Food Riots Break Out Across the Globe
GASMON wrote:
Food riots - cost of food rising quick - Why ?- Has the population suddenly increased 10%, are there any crop / animal plagues (well, yes, but not big enough to trigger current rises).
It's actually a combination. First, food stores have been dwindling for years. The last I heard, the entire world only had something like 56 days worth of food in storage. We have been quite literally living hand-to-mouth for nearly a decade.
Then there's the crop failures. Billg is right, it's been a tough year in Asia. I also read somewhere that India is suffering it's semi-centennial rodent infestation. It's damaged a lot more crops.
Then there's this ethanol nonsense. That's been discussed to death here, and I see no reason to further belabour the point.
And let's not forget Ug99. I haven't read the whole thread myself, but if it's posted here, it's probably "triple X doomer porn".
And finally, we come to transportation costs. This has long been predicted on this forum. The UN's World Food Program is begging for $500 million in emergency funding, mostly to cover increased transportation costs. _________________ The whole of human history is a refutation by experiment of the concept of "moral world order". - Friedrich Nietzsche
As trade in one commodity was restricted in an attempt to keep prices down at home (rice in many countries) the "contaigen" seems to be spreading to a related commodity (wheat) since many of those who would otherwise be buying rice are now substituting wheat, creating a cascading problem.
Who will be next among the large exporters to limit exports?
My guess would be Argentina but who knows?
Of course this might be good for our own trade deficiet. If the price of basic food stuffs goes up, perhaps we will be able to reclaim some of those dollars out there for rice, beans and corn.
Who is liable to be hurt the most?
Pick an "Other Developing Country" of your choice.
Once/If Wheat restrictions begins to cascade through the system what will be the next commodity to follow? Corn? Or will the system of trade be greased through government intervention or perhaps "demand destruction?"
Production:
Exporters:
(and most important) Importers:
Sorry Mexico, less oil for us = less corn for you.
Sorry South Korea... We won't be needing as many cheap new cars and TV sets for a while.
Taiwan, We have enough laptops thank you...
Or perhaps we will continue to supply them because they are allies?
Got Food? _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
-Friedrich von Schiller
"What I try, may not work. It may be ineffective. It might even turn out in the pages of history to be the exact wrong thing to do, but I'm going to try to do what I c
The Doha round of global trade negotiations has been stalled since 2001 because developing nations have refused to lower import tariffs that protect their farmers and rich countries won't give up farm-price supports. Now, import duties are being slashed from Brazil to Burkina Faso in response to prices that the World Bank says have risen 83 percent the past three years; subsidies in the U.S. and Europe are falling.
Did it not occur to the authors that bans on exports of soft commodities may hinder free trade? Did they not hear about the rice situation? I'm just posting this as an example of myopic thinking. _________________ "We shall live in interesting times, and we shall die in them too." - Heineken
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: Re: The Spreading Food Crisis Thread
Oh! you are talking about wheat and rice (and maize). Seeing the title of "Spreading Food Crisis" I thought you meant items like butter and jam
One old post of Monte's that I happened to read recently talked of the effect of Peak Oil being manifest most in its effect in the economic realm. The effect of this current food crisis is probably one of these effects showing up in another field than the oil industry. But then food is where one should expect the crisis to develop when you have a resource (like oil) that is getting scarer in a growing population.
I suppose we will see food prices rising faster than prices at the petrol pumps. I must get out into the garden, but it is a cool and cloudy day and I am too comfortable where I am. I need to find a space to dig up a new bed for potatoes (lots of hard work now, but I know I will feel better when it is done). _________________ We should teach our children the 4-Rs: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle and Rejoice.
Joined: Jan 16, 2005 Posts: 292 Location: Delft, Netherlands
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:41 am Post subject: Re: The Spreading Food Crisis Thread
FreakOil wrote:
I'm just posting this as an example of myopic thinking.
There has always been a huge market for myopic thinking. My highest boss, a division head, told me once in all seriousness that he was specifically looking for particularely "dumb" people to fill vacancies in our technical project management teams. The last thing he wanted, apparently, was having the day-to-day company business being run by "smart" people, who might get into all sorts of trouble and cause delays in technical projects supposed to be "quick and dirty".
The above discovery was a huge "eye-opener" for me, but this the way things are kept moving along in this world. Never hand power to smart people with insight. Better to hand it to goodhearted nincompoops who don't ask difficult questions and don't threaten the status quo.
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