Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 3897 Location: Graceland
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:06 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
AlwaysThere wrote:
Ludi wrote:
AlwaysThere wrote:
Why do you ask ?
Just curious, as you are making a bold pronouncement about a theory found to be quite robust by many (possibly most) scientists. Curious about your scientific background.
I will sum it all up - I have told you this before.
The sun for example is not in a "steady state" it is burning out. If you extrapolate back 20 billion years you will find the Sun would have boiled off the oceans because it would have been too hot. Eveolutionist need 20 billion yrs because that is their solution to solve the complexity in the universe. The chances of evolving a basic are something like 1 in 1000000000000000000000 power (I am guessing but it is a lot of zeros...(something like 1 in 10 to the 16th power). There are how many DNA molecules in the universe ? You do not have enough time, and if you begin tinkering with the earth's orbit etc to try to solve this problem you create a whole host of others...By defininition the chances of evolution occurring are out of it being realistic scenario by scientific standards. I do not have time to play 50 questions, but you are good on the internet go look it up, if you read the data and still come to the conslusion that evolution is a realistic scenario then good for you.
AT, did you approach the question with an open mind, or were you looking for a certain conclusion when you ran across the anlaysis above?
That looks like the map of someone who knew where they were going when they set out. _________________ Our window of opportunity is slowly closing...at the same time, it probably requires a spiral of adversity. In other words, things have to get worse before they can get better.
-M. King Hubbert, 1983
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
lper100km wrote:
The only thing that seems to distinguish humankind from the rest is the evolution of a thinking brain over the primal instinctive brain, though one can be forgiven for thinking that is still a work in progress.
I underlined a critical qualifier. We don't know enough to make a categorical statement about the issue above.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
AT, did you approach the question with an open mind, or were you looking for a certain conclusion when you ran across the anlaysis above?
That looks like the map of someone who knew where they were going when they set out.
I would suspect you have allready come to your conclusion, so why ask ?
The answer is no. I wondered about this when I was taught evolution and creationism in grade school. The teacher was actually very middle of the road.
I suggest you go read it your self or watch the video the "Privelaged Planet" it has a bunch of Brilliant Athiests on there explaining how the Earth could not have been tinkered with in any way shape or form and how life exists only in a small window of time and space in the Universe - As if it were created. Evolution by definition adopts the perpetual "tinkering" theory....
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
In all fairness AT, I don't think that evolution can be disproved by such a simple argument.
As a scientific theory it is supported by the fossil record (admittedly quite incomplete), and I agree that it does not pass the strict form of say Popper's criteria for a scientific theory. However the jury is still out on that scientifically, and the evidence is strong enough to view it as plausible.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 3897 Location: Graceland
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
AlwaysThere wrote:
BigTex wrote:
AT, did you approach the question with an open mind, or were you looking for a certain conclusion when you ran across the anlaysis above?
That looks like the map of someone who knew where they were going when they set out.
I would suspect you have allready come to your conclusion, so why ask ?
The answer is no. I wondered about this when I was taught evolution and creationism in grade school. The teacher was actually very middle of the road.
I suggest you go read it your self or watch the video the "Privelaged Planet" it has a bunch of Brilliant Athiests on there explaining how the Earth could not have been tinkered with in any way shape or form and how life exists only in a small window of time and space in the Universe - As if it were created. Evolution by definition adopts the perpetual "tinkering" theory....
I have come to no conclusion regarding evolution, other than to notice that some of the monkeys in the zoo look more like me than I would have thought if evolution weren't a factor.
I also see in a population like domesticated dogs the way selective breeding can create an amazing variety of creatures in a very short perdiod of time.
I also see those skulls they dig up and they look a little like me and a little like a monkey and it makes me wonder. _________________ Our window of opportunity is slowly closing...at the same time, it probably requires a spiral of adversity. In other words, things have to get worse before they can get better.
-M. King Hubbert, 1983
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
btu2012 wrote:
In all fairness AT, I don't think that evolution can be disproved by such a simple argument.
As a scientific theory it is supported by the fossil record (admittedly quite incomplete), and I agree that it does not pass the strict form of say Popper's criteria for a scientific theory. However the jury is still out on that scientifically, and the evidence is strong enough to view it as plausible.
Btu
You are a fair and reasonable man. Thank you for your honesty !
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 11397 Location: Village of Idiots
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
The theory of evolution needn't rule out a Creator, as I understand the theory, it simply doesn't require one for the process itself. No one knows how life itself came to be, as I understand it, those theories are rather vague. And of course the theory of evolution itself even among those who agree on it broadly, is up for debate within the scientific community, with such ideas as Punctuated Equilibrium. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Ludi wrote:
The theory of evolution needn't rule out a Creator, as I understand the theory, it simply doesn't require one for the process itself. No one knows how life itself came to be, as I understand it, those theories are rather vague. And of course the theory of evolution itself even among those who agree on it broadly, is up for debate within the scientific community, with such ideas as Punctuated Equilibrium.
Correct - Nobody knows. Evolution is accepted as a baseline in today's institutions of "higher education", which are really just institutions programming the next generation of consumer goods coveting robots.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
AlwaysThere wrote:
Correct - Nobody knows. Evolution is accepted as a baseline in today's institutions of "higher education", which are really just institutions programming the next generation of consumer goods coveting robots.
These are the societies we created for ourselves, the idea of elites was to educate the masses to the point where they can be useful as "worker bees". All this comes from viewing humans as "resources", an ideology which is shared by both capitalism and communism.
One reason why Orthodox Christianity was targeted in the East was its opposition to this view of human beings as a sort of formless wax to be molded into anything the state wanted.
At this stage the damage is so profound that it will take either a miracle or a disaster to reconstruct our civilization into a form which has some basic respect for the dignity of human beings. The moral decay started by the Enlightenment is now approaching its completion.
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3485 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
AlwaysThere wrote:
Ludi wrote:
The theory of evolution needn't rule out a Creator, as I understand the theory, it simply doesn't require one for the process itself. No one knows how life itself came to be, as I understand it, those theories are rather vague. And of course the theory of evolution itself even among those who agree on it broadly, is up for debate within the scientific community, with such ideas as Punctuated Equilibrium.
Correct - Nobody knows. Evolution is accepted as a baseline in today's institutions of "higher education", which are really just institutions programming the next generation of consumer goods coveting robots.
Creationism has been proven to be a false ideology.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
I look at the results of the silver fox project in Russia, and conclude that man is the result of both Darwinian forces and something or someone, that catalyzed the process of change, using the same domestication processes that we employ in animal husbandry and pet breeding. It is the height of irony that God is the palindrome of Dog.
Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
vision-master wrote:
AlwaysThere wrote:
Ludi wrote:
The theory of evolution needn't rule out a Creator, as I understand the theory, it simply doesn't require one for the process itself. No one knows how life itself came to be, as I understand it, those theories are rather vague. And of course the theory of evolution itself even among those who agree on it broadly, is up for debate within the scientific community, with such ideas as Punctuated Equilibrium.
Correct - Nobody knows. Evolution is accepted as a baseline in today's institutions of "higher education", which are really just institutions programming the next generation of consumer goods coveting robots.
Creationism has been proven to be a false ideology.
Vision master--Strangely, this is not altogether true.
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