Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Ludi wrote:
I found Lewis's arguments very convincing when I was a "Christian," less so later.
I haven't read "The Great Divorce," but quite a few of his other works.
I think it's because he understands human feeling so exquisitely, but even more, he understands the nature of thought, cognition and how neuroses and the human spirit interact. He has a way of looking at things that is unique on the one hand, but so universal, on the other, everyone who reads him seems to have an ah hah! moment.
If more Christians were like him, I'd sign up. I think another thing that appeals to me about his writing is the animism that shines through it. Everything is alive, vibrating, reflecting the creator while also paying homage to it/her/him.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:16 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
threadbear wrote:
The most philosophically, spiritually, and psychologically brilliant book I've ever read is C.S. Lewis' "Great Divide" I've read the complete works of Lewis, but remain not quite Christian, in the traditional understanding of what being a Christian is.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12051 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
I have a soft spot in my heart for Lewis, as I was quite fond of his work when I was young. It's probably been a good ten years since I read anything of his, so I should probably give him another look. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Sep 13, 2005 Posts: 1250 Location: Just the right place
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 5:54 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
clueless wrote:
Big Tex this is not doctrinally correct.
Well isn't that special.
Clueless, what is your goal in this discussion?
You're coming across like a piano teacher with students WHO JUST CAN'T SEEM TO GET IT RIGHT.
I'm not understanding how you became the gatekeeper of truth.
We read the same Bible, but somehow your understanding of it is more valid and authoritative than anyone else's.
As well-intended as your efforts may be, your approach is squarely argumentative, and THAT is not the way to share your belief about ANYTHING if your goal is to help bring someone to the faith.
Here is RULE #1 if you want someone to respect your beliefs: RESPECT THEIRS. Otherwise, you will never get beyond wallowing in this bog of religious tit for tat.
Your style is contentious, and the trouble with contention is that it often leads to an impasse where both sides spend much of their energy just to hold their ground and each side slowly exhausts the other, but neither ever actually prevails. Conflicts like that are pointless. I'm surprised you don't see that. You are convincing no one here of anything except that dogma is not very endearing.
Try finding some common ground and working from there. You might be surprised at how much better it works.
Big Tex - I do not "reason" I proclaim. You have asked on several occasions questions referring to the "do's" and "dont's" of Christianity. The heart of the message of the Bible is mankind in all his righteousness is as filthy rags...We will never measure up and be able to do anything that pleases God. That is what I mean by it not being "doctrinally correct".
I cannot find common ground with people who I do not have common ground with, what you are asking me to do is compromise which a Christian cannot do. I ahve yet to find one person here who wants to reason from the Bible and accept it as a source of absolute truth. I do not claim to be the gatekeeper - I only claim to know where it is.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
If more Christians were like him, I'd sign up.
I personally try not to judge any faith based on the actions of those who profess a belief in it. The faith is the faith alone - a perfect faith cannot be demonstrated by imperfect adherents. If we judge a faith on the actions of its supposed adherents, we wouldn't find even one worth considering.
Quote:
I think another thing that appeals to me about his writing is the animism that shines through it. Everything is alive, vibrating, reflecting the creator while also paying homage to it/her/him
I agree. However, it's not just found in the writings of Lewis. Here's but a few examples from the bible - and you are right - everything IS alive, vibrating, reflecting the creator while also paying homage. No argument from me there. There are many many more examples of this in the bible.
Quote:
Isa 14:7-8 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.
Psa 65:13 The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing.
Psa 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.
Isa 44:23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.
Isa 49:13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
I've stayed out of this thread to this point, because I didn't like the negative tone it's taken. Just wanted to add these comments - as I thought you might be interested in knowing your assumptions about the entire earth praising the Creator are correct.
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:26 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
threadbear wrote:
The most philosophically, spiritually, and psychologically brilliant book I've ever read is C.S. Lewis' "Great Divide" I've read the complete works of Lewis, but remain not quite Christian, in the traditional understanding of what being a Christian is.
I can't wait to read it.
I found his book 'The Great Divorce' to be very interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Divorce. Even if you do not agree with the content his style of writing is riveting and the story itself is thought provoking. I would love to see that made into a movie. We definitely have the technology now to do it justice.
Screwtape Letters was highly praised by others but I did not find it as enthralling. Mere Christianity, the same. Although that is his big famous apologetics work and the argument is worth considering. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Looks good--especially the academic intolerance. A friend of mine was given the assignment by a "free-thinking" university prof of writing a paper about academic intolerance, using an example to illustrate. She chose ufos as a topic and the professor, flat out rejected the paper!
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
CarlinsDarlin wrote:
Quote:
If more Christians were like him, I'd sign up.
I personally try not to judge any faith based on the actions of those who profess a belief in it. The faith is the faith alone - a perfect faith cannot be demonstrated by imperfect adherents. If we judge a faith on the actions of its supposed adherents, we wouldn't find even one worth considering.
Quote:
I think another thing that appeals to me about his writing is the animism that shines through it. Everything is alive, vibrating, reflecting the creator while also paying homage to it/her/him
I agree. However, it's not just found in the writings of Lewis. Here's but a few examples from the bible - and you are right - everything IS alive, vibrating, reflecting the creator while also paying homage. No argument from me there. There are many many more examples of this in the bible.
Quote:
Isa 14:7-8 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
1Ch 16:33 Then shall the trees of the wood sing out at the presence of the LORD, because he cometh to judge the earth.
Psa 65:13 The pastures are clothed with flocks; the valleys also are covered over with corn; they shout for joy, they also sing.
Psa 66:4 All the earth shall worship thee, and shall sing unto thee; they shall sing to thy name.
Isa 44:23 Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.
Isa 49:13 Sing, O heavens; and be joyful, O earth; and break forth into singing, O mountains: for the LORD hath comforted his people, and will have mercy upon his afflicted.
I've stayed out of this thread to this point, because I didn't like the negative tone it's taken. Just wanted to add these comments - as I thought you might be interested in knowing your assumptions about the entire earth praising the Creator are correct.
Kathy
Thank you Kathy. I'm not sure you would agree but when I think of Christian Mysticism and the early ascetics I think of things like that. Be still and know that I am God, comes to mind. Psalm 19 also
'The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. Day to Day pours forth speech, and night to night reveals knowledge.'
God bless. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4073 Location: Graceland
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
clueless wrote:
Big Tex - I do not "reason" I proclaim. You have asked on several occasions questions referring to the "do's" and "dont's" of Christianity. The heart of the message of the Bible is mankind in all his righteousness is as filthy rags...We will never measure up and be able to do anything that pleases God. That is what I mean by it not being "doctrinally correct".
I cannot find common ground with people who I do not have common ground with, what you are asking me to do is compromise which a Christian cannot do. I have yet to find one person here who wants to reason from the Bible and accept it as a source of absolute truth. I do not claim to be the gatekeeper - I only claim to know where it is.
We all have common ground in that we are all humans trying to figure out what life is all about.
Jesus showed kindness toward hookers, tax collectors, lepers, idiots, demon possessed people and those who tortured and killed him.
You are showing kindness toward no one.
You suggesting that I am asking you to compromise is just a strawman in a tunic.
Whatever you are trying to accomplish for your faith, you would do better to be quiet. You are not skilled at the art of discussion or persuasion. Throughout history, people like you have been responsible for getting many people killed in the process of changing very few minds.
I met someone like you at a rock concert one time. I was attending the show and the man I met was part of a Christian anti-rock music protest, complete with a cross, bullhorns and a lot of noise.
I wanted to tell him not to feel that he was alone, and that I actually shared his faith, and thought it was courageous of him to stand out there and proclaim his beliefs. Before I could finish my words of support, however, he was tearing into me and telling me how I was damned, vile and evil. I realized he didn't really want to change any minds, he just wanted to rant. He was so full of fury that he didn't even recognize a friend when he saw one.
All I can say, I guess, is good luck with whatever it is you are trying to accomplish with your posts.
If you hit upon anything that makes sense to me, I will let you know. _________________
Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:37 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Gandalf_the_White wrote:
BigTex wrote:
threadbear wrote:
The most philosophically, spiritually, and psychologically brilliant book I've ever read is C.S. Lewis' "Great Divide" I've read the complete works of Lewis, but remain not quite Christian, in the traditional understanding of what being a Christian is.
I can't wait to read it.
I found his book 'The Great Divorce' to be very interesting. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Divorce. Even if you do not agree with the content his style of writing is riveting and the story itself is thought provoking. I would love to see that made into a movie. We definitely have the technology now to do it justice.
Screwtape Letters was highly praised by others but I did not find it as enthralling. Mere Christianity, the same. Although that is his big famous apologetics work and the argument is worth considering.
Same, Gandalph. I actually think that one of the reasons the Great Divorce is so compelling is because it offers a more sophisticated way of processing the ideas of Heaven and Hell, without resorting to the punitive. . The point he makes in this story, that people actually follow their own affections to a place of their choosing after death, resonates with me. To me, Hell would look and feel like Las Vegas. To a thrill seeking drunk with a criminal streak, it would be heaven.
Looks good--especially the academic intolerance. A friend of mine was given the assignment by a "free-thinking" university prof of writing a paper about academic intolerance, using an example to illustrate. She chose ufos as a topic and the professor, flat out rejected the paper!
In my educational travels I have told more than one professor that I was disappointed with their intellectual insecurity. The way they reacted to that comment usually confirmed my thesis. OTOH, I have had some great professors who would give you a good clean fight without pulling rank or taking cheap shots, and then be friendly at the end of class to boot. People like that are great teachers. I love sending some of them emails from time to time just saying hello and letting them know that I am still thinking about the things I learned in their class. _________________
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It's probably been a good ten years since I read anything of his, so I should probably give him another look.
