I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Amen, peleg.
"And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever." (Daniel 12:3)
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:19 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
vision-master wrote:
How about the idol of oil?
Today the biggest idol seems to be the idol of "self".
Generation Me.
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
Alex
Last edited by POAlex on Fri Jun 13, 2008 8:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4739 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:32 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
POAlex wrote:
vision-master wrote:
How about the idol of oil?
Today the biggest idol seems to be the idol of "self".
Generation Me says it all.
"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2 Timothy 3:1-5)
Posted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:03 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
If you have some time, here are probably the two best documentaries I've seen concerning the End Times. Bible prophecy is truly incredible and these videos are a great blessing.
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 1:59 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
POAlex wrote:
If you have some time, here are probably the two best documentaries I've seen concerning the End Times. Bible prophecy is truly incredible and these videos are a great blessing.
Whoa! Yeah, most of that is pretty orthodox teaching about Biblical Prophecy and the end times from a late 20th century perspective. Thanks.
The one thing I would speak to at the beginning of the first one is the long OT based condemnation of false prophets. This is a Baptist teaching which seems to say that despite Paul writing to the Corinthians 'Desire earnestly the spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy' 1 Cor 14:1, there is no prophecy or prophets today. This of course is not true. And since Christ forgives us of sins like murder, and lying and adultery, is it not possible that a Christian can prophesy falsely and be forgiven? Do we not struggle with the flesh? But we are to earnestly seek the best spiritual gifts. So the limitation on New Testament prophets and prophecy are these. No one anymore is writing Scripture, the canon is sealed and the revelation of it complete. However prophets function mainly to call God's people back to holiness and faith, and then also to excercise the gift of prophecy which can include foretelling of events particular either to a region or a person or any thing really. For those not aware, I am not attacking Alex, or even assuming that Alex holds any particular doctrinal view on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I am only making the distinction so that it is known that there are Christians who are both grounded in Scripture and experience the gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor 12.) By no means is this every Christian and there is much error in the Pentecostal movement as there also is in the other churches, if not in doctrine at least in the practice of truth and love.
That said, the videos are terrifying to me because of what we cannot know. one can look out at the world and know the Bible says it is under the control of the wicked one and think, 'It appears to be a nice place. Those who serve in public office appear to be well meaning if not entirely faithful to their campaign promises.' But how can this really be true if those who do not know Christ are taken captive by Satan at his will? Satan's temptation of Jesus revealed the inner workings of the devil's kingdom , 'bow down to me and all this will be yours.' Now of course that is not true but it is the carrot, something that fallen man desires is promised by the devil. But tell me honestly is it only the elitist who worship satan? Is that really true? Do all elitists worship Satan?
You see we simply do not know what goes on behind the scenes that is why videos like zeitgeist and even these Megiddo videos are something not to be eating by novices. The videos themselves take many sources and add them together into a conspiracy made all the more believable with extensive biblical quotation.
Although I do agree that the teaching in Megiddo would be considered orthodox in most evangelical denominations, it is far from being certain that all of the things which appear related are in fact so significant.
The most important thing is to start with a true faith in Jesus Christ. I pray that for anyone reading who does not know Jesus that the Holy Spirit convict you of the truth of this, you are a sinner. By original sin separated from God through our father Adam, and by pesonal acts of sin (lying, stealing, or perhaps simply not believing in Jesus.) I pray also that He give you grace to turhn from that sin and to put your trust forever in the living person of Jesus Christ, second-person of the Trinity who is God. If you truly believe this and pray even a simple prayer asking Jesus to forgive you and come into your heart to be the Lord and Savior of your life, you will be born-again. All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
I noticed they painted George Washington as a hero of sorts, fighting Illuminism, he was actually a freemason. It gets very difficult to unravel or to even know what might be going on behind the scenes and this is why I suggest to young believers to stay away from things like that. The plain reading of Scripture is fine, but building large theories inductively as to who is doing what and the dangers of it. The mature are on their own discretion and have to be so that they can strengthen the brethren.
There used to be a movie out called 'Hells Bells' that exposed rock music. It is definitely ugly.
Here is my question. Since your average demon is probably 250 times smarter than the brightest human (not having the Holy Spirit) would'nt one of the goals of the devil be to simply possess those in places of authority? I mean possession is the most direct from of control that a demon can have over a person so would'nt it stand to reason that all of the world's leaders are possessed? And yet Paul tried to convert, and did, members of Caesar's household. You see there has to be more to the story than the demon under every rock theory would lead us to believe. When Paul addressed Festus he did not first cast a demon out of him?
The videos have brought up many thoughts for me. I am currently underwhelmed by the general knowledge of the Bible among Christians and even pastors. Christian seem to lap up these end times things and anything that promises a payday, but neglect entirely the real foundations of Christian faith as the author in Hebrews puts it (Hebrews 6:1.) So many young menin the church into the meat of the word all the time, but they cannot give you a good presentation for the gospel to save their souls. Pun intended.
Here a little there a little, is intended to grow us in our knowledge as we grow in our practice. But what of the basics when we blow right past them and start talking about Melchizedek all the time?
Not long ago I was glorying in God greatly. And now I need Him to increase my faith for what lay ahead. It is all too big for me. Never knowing who is real and who is fake, who is working for whom and why, and then having a family in tow who does not really see the situation clearly. That for me is the hardest, knowing that because of what I know and what I say, some day my family might be put in harm's way. I want to flee but it is better to be in obedience to God, there is no safer place than that.
Lord help us to know each other and to encourage one another. That is my prayer, for the true church to be supernaturally abundant in discernment and love.
Perilous times: caused by what, extreme selfishness, the idolatry of self, a religion Satan created and seeks to perfect to this day.
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Peleg wrote:
The one thing I would speak to at the beginning of the first one is the long OT based condemnation of false prophets. This is a Baptist teaching which seems to say that despite Paul writing to the Corinthians 'Desire earnestly the spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy' 1 Cor 14:1, there is no prophecy or prophets today. This of course is not true. And since Christ forgives us of sins like murder, and lying and adultery, is it not possible that a Christian can prophesy falsely and be forgiven? Do we not struggle with the flesh? But we are to earnestly seek the best spiritual gifts. So the limitation on New Testament prophets and prophecy are these. No one anymore is writing Scripture, the canon is sealed and the revelation of it complete. However prophets function mainly to call God's people back to holiness and faith, and then also to excercise the gift of prophecy which can include foretelling of events particular either to a region or a person or any thing really. For those not aware, I am not attacking Alex, or even assuming that Alex holds any particular doctrinal view on the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I am only making the distinction so that it is known that there are Christians who are both grounded in Scripture and experience the gifts of the Spirit (1 Cor 12.)
Although I do agree that the teaching in Megiddo would be considered orthodox in most evangelical denominations, it is far from being certain that all of the things which appear related are in fact so significant.
The most important thing is to start with a true faith in Jesus Christ. I pray that for anyone reading who does not know Jesus that the Holy Spirit convict you of the truth of this, you are a sinner. By original sin separated from God through our father Adam, and by pesonal acts of sin (lying, stealing, or perhaps simply not believing in Jesus.) I pray also that He give you grace to turhn from that sin and to put your trust forever in the living person of Jesus Christ, second-person of the Trinity who is God. If you truly believe this and pray even a simple prayer asking Jesus to forgive you and come into your heart to be the Lord and Savior of your life, you will be born-again. All who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Here is my question. Since your average demon is probably 250 times smarter than the brightest human (not having the Holy Spirit) would'nt one of the goals of the devil be to simply possess those in places of authority? I mean possession is the most direct from of control that a demon can have over a person so would'nt it stand to reason that all of the world's leaders are possessed? And yet Paul tried to convert, and did, members of Caesar's household. You see there has to be more to the story than the demon under every rock theory would lead us to believe. When Paul addressed Festus he did not first cast a demon out of him?
Lord help us to know each other and to encourage one another. That is my prayer, for the true church to be supernaturally abundant in discernment and love.
God help us.
Some good salt in there, peleg. Praise the Lord.
Thanks for the message. I agree most with how you finished what you were saying. The Church needs to be very discerning in these last days and be an encouragement to one another.
About the false prophets. In God's Word it seems the key distinction is when a false prophet will direct people to worship other gods. Their sign and wonder is to deceive, instead of direct people to repent and turn to the Lord Jesus to be saved. One thing is for sure, signs and wonders will become more prominent in the last days but they'll be used to direct people to worship the Antichrist.
"If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul." (Deuteronomy 13:1-3)
In any discussion about the End Times, we cannot know for certain how all things will come to pass. We can know the bigger picture based on prophecy.
You said it best when you said "The most important thing is to start with a true faith in Jesus Christ." No matter what's going on and what's to come, that's what truly matters. We need to be saved and born-again.
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
POAlex wrote:
Amen.
Those videos really started me thinking. Being on PO.com I am already a litle paranoid, then seeing that I had to pray and remember.
'Greater is He that is in you than He that is in the World.'
This one helps too
'When He the spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth.'
It is about trust in God, who introduced Himself to us by grace and grace maintains us. The enormity of it all, and the power of the devil in the lives of those who are lost tempts me to fear. But then ait I pray that God will lead me, but then do I then go out and fear that He won't? The attitude is wrong. The Lord protects us. Faith is all about trusting God, a God we know, and knowing that He is in control of all things. Whatever latitude he gives the enemy for a time is not greater than this truth 'God causes all things to work together for good to them that love the Lord.'
BTW, my wife is going to watch those videos today too. She is at that stage in her walk where she is getting really hungry to understand a Sciptural worldview, to be a real student of the Bible. I am so excited for her because it is a journey that you never regret knowing God better through His word and prayer.
So many in the church are afraid, there is not need to be afraid and if we are tempted to it we can come boldly before the throne of grace to find help in our time of need. Our great High Priest Jesus understands our infirmities, having experienced every temptation we do and was yet without sin.
'These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life. And this is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything accoding to His will, He hears us. And if we know that hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.' 1 John 5:13-15
The praying in faith is not a way to force God to do what He would not otherwise do, though we are called to perseverence in prayer, it is a relational aspect with God under His will. Sometimes we pray for loved ones and then sometimes get angry at God because they do not seem to come. But the day of their salvation is in the hands of God. So perseverence in prayer is not a matter of convincing a God who knows the end from the beginning that He should force salvation upon those whom our affections hope to see in heaven, it is a demonstration of our trust in God and our sincere love for God and for those for whom we pray. Love does not rest well until it rests in God's will and understands that God is sovereign and that no one goes to hell who does not reject the gracious offer of God. And even if they do, is not God the potter and we the clay? Although this I think goes too far. I believe God open's the door by grace and makes opportunity for belief that grows, but we are still given a choice. Jesus seems to confirm this,
'And this is the judgment, that the light is come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God.' John :19-21
I know people whom God's Spirit has called many times but because they do not want their sins to be exposed they reject Him over and over again. Eventually though, all things hidden are revealed, be it now or as we stand before the Throne. What can separate us from the Love of God? But I think the devil get's mileage out of the idea that some sins carry severe consequences in this world, as if the consequences created by the fallen are just. And yet there are consequences to sin.
There are many questions that the average Christian never asks themselves and so they live in what appears to be peace, and it may be. Some are called however to understand and consider and take on a greater responsiblity in the Garden of God, and with much knowledge comes much suffering.
Long ago I prayed and asked God for great wisdom. 19 years later I begin to understand. He has been answering my prayer by teaching me to fear Him. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
A part of me is always cautious when posting videos like that especially concerning what's really happening in this world. It can be discouraging in the worldly sense. On the other hand, what I take away from them is that we really need to be discerning watchmen in these last days. We're saved by grace through faith and the LORD wants us to draw nigh to Him and rely only on His strength, wisdom, Word and power during these times. You're right brother, the fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.
Be encouraged, we know how it ends. The King of kings will return in great glory to end the great deceiver's reign.
"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." [Luke 21:27-28]
In the meantime we labour for the fields are white.
One thing I noticed today I wanted to point out.
I happened to glance through the movie listings this morning and I saw something I couldn't believe. Things have become so bad that there is a movie in the theatres right now with the F word in the title. Right there, beside all the other film listings.
This is what happens when a generation forgets the LORD.
Posted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
A small comment on some answers posted by Pat Robertson on his website. I was looking around to see how many of the big ministries were on top fo the California gay-marriage thing and I saw Pat preaching about creating your reality with your words and the need to observe the Sabbath.
Quote:
Some Christians give the impression that God has given us creative power with our words. Can we really speak something into existence?
Jesus said, "Whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it shall be granted him. Therefore I say to you, all things for which you pray and ask, believe that you have received them, and they shall be granted you." Proverbs says, "A man shill eat good by the fruit of his mouth." Your confession is extremely important, and, indeed, your words do have creative power, if they are energized by the Holy Spirit.
Throughout Scripture, we can find incidences of God speaking things into existence. For instance, if we look at the origin of this universe, it was the spoken word of God that brought it to pass. We read again and again in Genesis, "God said, 'Let there be. ..' " and it happened according to His Word. Moreover, the apostle Paul reminds us that God "gives life to the dead and calls those things which do not exist as though they did." He has given us the energized Word through the Holy Spirit, and with His power, amazing things can take place if we speak them into being.
Paul said, "If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Apparently, something about confession, acknowledging verbally that Jesus is Lord, validates your spiritual experience. Power flows from the creative mind of God to the Spirit of God, to the spirit of man, to the mind of man, and to the mouth of man. God's thoughts will be transmitted by the Holy Spirit to our spirits, and if we speak them forth, things will begin to take shape and change. On the other hand, human beings simply blabbering away will not bring about anything good or creative. It is the Holy Spirit of God that must do the work. We become the instrument of His divine will, if we will yield ourselves to Him.
Jesus also said, "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." When we stand before God in judgment, we will give account for every idle word we utter. Our words are extremely important. Scripture warns that the tongue is like a rudder that steers the ship. "Look also at ships: although they are so large and are driven by fierce winds, they are turned by a very small rudder wherever the pilot desires. Even so the tongue is a little member and boasts great things."
Similarly, it is a flame of Iife, and no man can contain it. When a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, and his or her entire life --including the tongue-- comes under the control of the Spirit of God, his or her speech will be affected. When a person speaks in tongues under the direction of the Holy Spirit, even though it may be in an unlearned language, it is nonetheless the spoken word.
In my experience, the way I've seen healings take place has been to speak the word, to see creative miracles, to command storms to cease. That is what Jesus did. He spoke to the waves. He said, "Peace, be still." And that is the way you deal with demons, too. You speak to the demon, commanding it to obey. When you exercise the authority of Jesus' name, and command evil spirits to be gone, they must obey. Taking authority over demons is a scripturally sound activity. It is not some hocus-pocus, mind over matter or some weird magic.
Similarly, agreeing with God's Word, and speaking to our circumstances is not a "name it and claim it" game of "let's see what we can get from God." We are not talking about magic, formulas, tricks, or games; we are talking about the power of God having real results in our everyday lives according to clearly annunciated biblical teachings.
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What does it mean for Christians to keep the Sabbath nowadays?
The Bible says that God labored for six days, and on the seventh day He rested. God didn't rest because He was tired. He ceased from His labors because He had finished creation, therefore He hallowed the Sabbath day.
When Jesus interpreted the Sabbath, He said, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." Human beings require a day of rest. Working seven days a week with no break, followed by seven more days of work with no break will eventually destroy your mental, physical, and spiritual health. Any society that encourages people to work seven days a week, week after week, will ultimately destroy its people. We must have a day off for rest and refreshment.
Even many churches have missed this important truth. Some churches have Sunday school, two worship services, then an afternoon meeting, and an evening service of some sort. Then they have youth group, and more in the middle of the week. Although it is wonderful to have so many spiritual activities that people can enjoy, God's people must have time to rest and nurture family relationships, too. The Sabbath should be a day of rest, not more frantic spiritual activity; it should be a time to read the Bible, pray, talk to the Lord, when you have time to consider heavenly things, when you recharge your spiritual batteries. That's what keeping the Sabbath holy is all about.
The church used to emphasize keeping the Sabbath holy, but in recent years we have compromised. Now, government mandates dictate that we can't have closings on Sunday because this may violate the constitution. Nonsense! But these rulings are law, and as a result we have seven days a week of full-blown commerce in which people are flocking to malls, restaurants, and other places that at one time were closed one day per week. The people who have to work in the malls don't really have a quiet day of rest they can enjoy; No wonder we have so many emotional breakdowns and so much mental and physical stress in our society. We are in a selfdestruct mode, ready to implode on ourselves because of our ignorance of this simple but vital truth.
It may not be easy, but practice setting aside one day each week for essential rest, prayer, relaxation, and close communion with the Lord. The remaining six days of your week will go much better!
Pat Robertson - 700 Club website answers to questions
I really get tired sometimes of the endless bless me Lord, bless Me Lord rhetoric I hear, and only in America do we see these things taking root. Is that surprising?
There are many verses we can quote to show that his answer to the first question is out of balance, I will quote only one for each question.
'And this is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us. And if we know that He hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have the requests which we have asked from Him.' 1 John 5:14,15
So God's will is the determiner of our answered prayers? What is God's will for the Christian? Can I dare to alter a saying of Jesus? Where your treasure is, there your preaching will be also.
As for Sabbath observance, it is good to have some time off during the week, but that is not solely what Jesus meant when He said 'The sabbath was meant for man, not man for the sabbath.' He was telling the religious that they did not understand the sabbath to begin with. Paul tells us
'Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day -- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.' Colossians 2:16,17
We ought not to forsake the gathering together of the brethren, but we are the living stones connected by the Holy Spirit. If someone has to work on our traditional meeting day can't we find a way to handle that? The church is about relationship with God and with each other in the Holy Spirit, dogma and false religion only hurt the cause. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies.
'Where the Spirit of the Lord is there is liberty.' 2 Corinthians 3:17
(look at chapter 3 in it's entirety to understand the context, the implications, and what it tells us about those who never understand Christian liberty.)
I am not saying we are without restraint but that atop of faith in Jesus and the commandment to love (which satisfies the law) the New Testament calls us to liberty and conscience. We are to walk in love and demonstrate faith by our actions. Will I go where the Lord calls? Will I volunteer for the tough assigment as Isaiah did (Is 6:8 )? Until we understand that, we cannot understand the power of God. The wind blows were it listeth. But we have a system where every preacher in the land suddenly goes Old Testament on you if you suggest that God wants all His children to know the Scriptures and be led by His Spirit. Heaven forbid they discover that there is not commandment in the New Testament to tithe. If they want Law they shall have the law, won't they? And failing to keep every jot and tittle they shall be condemned.
The following verses also strongly identify for me the place American Christianity has come to.
'See to it that no one take you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.' Colossians 2:8
'But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.' 1 Timothy 1:5-7
I said I was only going to quote two verses but it is hard not to long deeply for the truth of the Scripture, if in fact our hearts belong to Jesus.
I will end with this, a call to maturity.
'It was for freedom that Christ set us free' Galatians 5:1
Christian living is not hard, His yoke is easy, but it does require sacrifice. We must lose ourselves in this world that we might find our lives in Christ. And what do we find? Do we find trials and suffering, yes! Do we find blessing and honor, yes! Do we find a reality that cannot be questioned by anything of this world? Yes. We find the love of God which surpasses understanding and we find that all things work together for our good, when we love the Lord. In that liberty we are free to meet and establish customs that remind us of Christ, and to forsake them if they tempt us too strongly to trust them for our salvation or give place to the flesh. It's all good, except when it's bad.
'For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come (peak oil?), nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.' Romans 8:38,39
It was that type of confidence in God that lead Paul to trust God through stonings and beatings and shipwrecks and eventually beheading at the hands of Nero. I want to know God the way Paul knew Him. Some say that is a vain boast. No. What are we doing in this country that we call ourselves a Christian nation? God help us, we are lost.
May God grant grace to the remnant that they should find each other and be encouraged by His Spirit. One more revival to a nation that in every generation has seen a great awakening and in the next rejected it. But God has pursued the children of America because of His great love, but for the sake of the elect and for justice He must soon take up His power and begin to reign (Rev 11:17.)
God bless the seekers, the hearers, and the doers.
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