Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil

Peleg · Heavy Crude Joined: May 20, 2008 Posts: 391

Going to be taking a break for a few weeks at least. Need some time away from the big pressure cooker.

I want to remind everyone here that there is an ignore list that you can use if someone is getting out of bounds in your opinion.

Also I think we are right to use some standards for fellowship among those who claim ot be believers. These are the one's the Lord recommended, but I don;t think He intended them to be dogmatic.

1) First go to your brother/sister and explain the issue you are having with them (PM works fine for that)

2) If (1) does not work and you are still certain something is needed to be said, get someone else to also look into the situation. This requires explaining to the person you want to enter in to the dispute your position. They should then also listen to both sides, if they agree the brother/sister is out of bounds but the person still will not listen

3) Now bring it to the attention of the thread (the Christian Perspectives thread thus serviing like a public meeting place.

4) If after seeing that they will not reconsider after all that, place them on your ignore list and look for all of those who agree with your point to do the same as a show of solidairty and orthodoxy.

Of course this is going to be difficult to implement, but if Jesus is the Head of the church, and He is, He can manifest spiritual authority in the lives of believers even over the Internet.

Those are my recommendations, as I have received more than a few PM's about things that are said and appear on the broader forum.

May God bless you with vision to see, with courage to face and with grace and strength to overcome the hideous serpent that holds your nation captive. In Jesus Name. Amen

Rogozhin

Since non-believers are going to hell for eternity do you have a moral problem with 'die-off'? I was born and raised a baptist, and my parents are still christians (but none of their offspring are-myself included). I haven't posed this question to my father, but I'm curious about your answer to my question, thanks!

Rogo
_________________
"Those who long for exaltation look upwards, but I look downward for I am the exalted."

Thus Spake Zarathustra

joelcolorado · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 683

I believe that the real problem with the church today is that it is NOT concerned about people going to hell. If we believe what we preach, we need to be out bringing as many ppl as we can to Jesus.
But the false doctrine of the rapture, invented in the 1700 by Francisco Roberr to cover for the pope against Martin Luthers rants, makes the church an escapist attitude. I have heard so many ppl say, "Well we are getting out of here and too bad for those who have to stay" with a smirk on their faces almost.
It is not serious to them that someone goes to hell. What a shame.
THAT is what is wrong with Christians especially here in America. We really dont KNOW what Jesus died for. He came for the LOST not for the CHURCH.
When we finally GET THAT and go out into the world with a message of redemption and not of condemnation, a real revival will take place. Its the gift of God, eternal life. Not earned nor deserved. The message is simple and it makes all the do gooders and works seekers so mad to think someone might get into heaven by JUST BELIEVING. I have had christians get so mad when you suggest that even a man like Hitler could have been redeemed at the last moment. But that is how powerful the cross is and the Blood of Jesus is.
Hard to imagine, I know. But the grace of God is unmerrited favor.

vision-master

dohboi · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1427

I really seem to have touched off a nerve with Mr. P!

I think his rant pretty much speaks for itself. I'll just point out, to any who missed it, that I said nothing about God--I was talking about the failures of self-proclaimed Christians. Apparently for Mr. (or Mrs?)P, questioning the actions of modern Christians is equivalent to blaming God. If that's his stance, well, that's just so out there, I don't know whay more to say.

It is interesting that after starting out bragging about his ignorance of Latin (the language of Western Christianity for well over a thousand years), P hides behind ignorance as an excuse. How is it that I was aware of these issues at 15? Is the church (or church organizations) not responsible for discerning what is especially important info about creation and getting that info out to its flock? Do you see no failure of the church or of Christians in general, here?

Further more, just as I was not criticizing God, I was not and did not intent to personally criticize P. The fact that he took a criticism of Christians generally as an attack on his personal activity speaks volumes, and suggests that further discussion with him will not be fruitful.

And sure, God could presumably come down and "heal" everything tomorrow--restore the hundreds of thousands of species we have driven to extinction, re-balance the atmospheric gases, un-melt the tundra and ice cap...

But I just don't think that lets us, especially Christians, off the hook.

It would be like a Christian saying that it was alright to machine gun down a bunch of people because God could bring them all back to life. But this attitude is a very standard mis-use (IMVHO) of faith: "It doesn't matter how badly we obliterate the precious creation, since God is going to come along and clean up all our messes."

And sure, creation shared in the fall. Big deal. Humans undoubtedly not only shared in but perpetrated the fall. Does that make it ok to obliterate humans? If not, then how does its participation in the fall rationalize our desecration of the earth?

Best wishes on your vacation, P. You've earned it with the hundreds of words you've posted in the last few days.

As for owing everything to industrial civilization: By that logic, no one living under communism should have ever criticized it because they owed their lives to it. If you don't believe that anyone should ever criticize anything, which is what your argument implies, then you should just say so.

Oh, and if you don't want to hear views contrary to your own, why the hell are you conversing on this web site? I did not see a sign anywhere that said that this forum was only for those who believe exactly as P does.

dohboi · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1427

joel, I think you're right, but I see virtually no signs of true belief.

If American Christians had true faith, would they be frantically working to pay for their McMansions and SUVs?

Corporate America has seduced pretty much all of us into a life that is nearly 180 degrees opposite from lives of faith.

Cog · Last edited by Cog on Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

This last year, I joined a Bible-based church and am very happy having fellowship with the people there. For several years, one of the older members has raised a vegetable garden on the church property and shared the bounty with the membership. He retired from this last fall and asked if anyone would like to take this on. I and children's minister volunteered to run this. She has involved the children in helping to plant and weed the vegetables. The purpose now, is to donate this food to the local food bank. I do most of the actual tilling and preparation work so the kids can just plant and weed.

Half of the garden I have reserved for tomatoes which the food bank will not take due to spoilage. I have approached the church leadership with an idea of putting these tomatoes in a bag, along with a small Bible, the plan of salvation on a tract, some basic information about our church, and handing these out in the poorest neighborhoods. I have also asked the leadership if we can double the size of the garden next year. They are very active about reaching out to our community.

I would ask that, if you feel you can, please pray for this ministry of reaching out to people who do not know the Lord. I can only give them food for a day but the plan of salvation is something that will last them forever.

John

Edit: I have not sought out Christians on this board to this point. Not because I am ashamed of the Gospel but I desired to know there was like-minded people on this board.

joelcolorado · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 683

Here is an idea bout the tomatos.

We made our own tract when doing street mnistry. We would give out a free piece of candy and the tract which said. This is a free gift to you. Just like this free Gift, God also has provided the free gift of eternal life. The scripture says, The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life thru Jesus Christ. Wouldnt you like to receive that free gift today?

Then we would ask them just that. On one 3 day event, 5 of us prayed with 2500 ppl at a fair. It was awesome.

Make your own tract. Its a good opener. Free is free.

Cog

Thank you Joel.

joelcolorado · Intermediate Crude Joined: May 25, 2008 Posts: 683

The FREE part always gets to ppl who are into works. Good works are a result of a heart felt conviction and change. But good works have nothing to do with salvation. If is does, then the cross is not as powerful as it says in the Bible.

Free is just so hard on our religious yearnings. We all want to feel worthy in some way or another but our righteousness is like filthy rags in His sight. HE paid the price, the Lamb of God. Once and for all. its a free gift.

Does that mean ppl can go and so as they please after that. No, but it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to change ppl inside to what God wants them to be. Without that, we are left to our own devices and sinful nature. If you have to do anything at all to recieve eternal life, then Jesus died in vain.

Cog

@ joelcolorado,

I completely agree with you about works. I'm not earning my way to heaven. I just want to reach the lost. The food is just a way to get the message of grace to people who do not know Jesus. When I garden at the church, I feel very connected to the Lord and we have many conversations about tomato worms, leaf cutters, and rain. Smile

CarlinsDarlin · Moderator Joined: Jul 02, 2004 Posts: 1420

dohboi · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1427

Pretty shoddy excuse--"yeah, but those other guys are bad too!"

If Christianity is, as it claims, not only better than the others but in fact the one true religion, shouldn't they be held to a slightly higher standard?

And anyway, the vast, vast majority of religious Americans call themselves Christian--if they can't set a different tone for the country than rampant and utterly destructive consumerism, then the Zoroastrians (bless their fire-worshiping souls) don't have much of a chance.

Look, there are not only individual Christians like yourself, but larger segments of the Christian community, like the Amish, who have largely successfully rejected modern rampant consumerism.

But why is it so difficult for you to hear the simple fact that I am relating? It is not I who have "defined American Christians" in this or that way. They have, by and large, defined themselves by their own actions.

I'm not saying that all the virtue of those practicing Christianity is due to individual attributes and all the failure is due to their being Christian, but for the vast majority in the US, their faith has not diminished one bit their full participation in the modern orgy of consumerist materialism. This I find more than sad.

But you seem to be saying that all the failure is individual and all the virtue is due to Christianity. Well, excuse me if I don't buy it.

Ludi