Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12021 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Thank you for clarifying that, Gandalf. I think it is made more clear in the Lumen Gentium. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
from Lumen
'As often as the sacrifice of the cross in which Christ our Passover was sacrificed, is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried on, and, in the sacrament of the eucharistic bread, the unity of all believers who form one body in Christ is both expressed and brought about. All men are called to this union with Christ, who is the light of the world, from whom we go forth, through whom we live, and toward whom our whole life strains.'
This is one of the major points of contention, the idea that Christ's work on the cross is carried on somehow through the mystery of the Eucharist. I can see both how and why certain leaders may have accepted this back in the 11th century, but if you read only what the Bible says about the work accomplished on the cross ('It is finished!') and the Lords' Supper ('Do this in remembrance of me') can we at least agree that the contention between Protestant and Catholic is not trite. This one usually sends red blooded protestant theologians into the stratosphere because it is so clear that men who love power would love to have the power of the Cross be propogated by a ritual they control.
As of Benedict XVI, I would say that the RCC has one of it's greatest shepherds in history, a man whose sincere faith is inspiring even to me, a true pastor for the last times. I hope that he will have the strength to never compromise as he faces some of the most potent enemies of the truth the devil has ever had at his disposal. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Last edited by Gandalf_the_White on Fri May 02, 2008 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4070 Location: Graceland
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Gandalf_the_White wrote:
As of Benedict XVI, I would say that the RCC has one of it's greatest shepherds in history, a man whose sincere faith is inspiring even to me, a true pastor for the last times. I hope that he will have the strength to never compromise as he faces some of the most potent enemies of the truth the devil has ever had at his disposal.
A little flexibility on that birth control thing might be good.
The leader of a mighty herd can start to look like the Pied Piper if adherence to stale dogma is too mindless.
As for criticism of the Catholic church, I get bored with that pretty fast.
Start talking about die off and it turns into talking about which groups to kill first.
Start talking about the fact that Jesus was a Jew and the conversation turns to how Jews run the world and should be stopped.
Start talking about Christianity and it turns into a scrap about my church vs. your church.
Please.
You know what Jesus would say about this conversation?
"Hi, this is Jesus. You're a bunch of dumbasses if you have taken my message of a personal relationship with God, humility, kindness toward others and rejection of wordliness and turned it into a 'my church is better than your church' squabble. This is exactly the kind of legalism I was trying to get people away from in the first place. YOU should worry about YOU. Don't worry about what other people believe. That's between me and them. I hate to say this, but we may have to do another flood."
***
I don't fully understand Catholicism, but I have better things to do than tell Catholics why their faith is not "real" Christianity.
Similarly, if I was a Catholic and heard the Pope talking all that nonsense about Catholicism being the only "true" Christianity, I would probably write him a letter and say:
"Dear Pope,
Please pull your head out of your ass and stop saying stupid divisive things like Catholicism is the only real Christianity. Until you can get your field agents to stop fondling little boys, the church would do well not to tell other Christians they are outside of God's grace. Remember who gets to cast the first stone--and I guarantee you it's not the church that's been best known recently for its priests sexually assaulting children, covering it up for decades and using tithes from the faithful to pay off plaintiffs to avoid further embarrassment. Peace be with you, and next time try to THINK before you open your Pope trap." _________________
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 9:50 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Gandalf_the_White wrote:
This is a thread where I intend to answer any and all questions about my christian faith and peak oil that I can. ...
Observation/question:
In a way, mankind is going about the business of making oil "extinct." Burn it all, use it all, consume it all, whatever.
It appears similar human behavior is causing many species to become extinct.
I know that is a very vague comparison of outcomes, but the causes seem to be somewhat similar - lack of respect for the value of the thing being consumed, and eventually no more thing. The recent Salmon news comes to mind.
What is the Christian take on mankind eating a species to extinction or consuming a natural resource to depletion? Is there anything like "though shalt not mindlessly consume" or is it all "got forth and multiply" - resulting in no fish, no oil, no space, no clean water, no rain forests, no .... I guess another way to phrase it is "Is God a Cornucopian?" as in "Don't worry, I'll make more?"
I never hear any of my Christian acquaintances lament the loss of species on the way to their SUVs. If they care that little about permanently eradicating living things, why would they care care about using up liquid hydrocarbons, which are not alive? Should they care? Is there anything inherently "sinful" about Human Beings consuming an earthly thing (animal, vegetable, mineral) out of existence?
Sorry if this is off topic, or too metaphysical. Like I said, treat it as an observation if it's a ridiculous question like "what does the color blue weigh?". _________________ Posted from a Solar/Pedal Powered Computer
Joined: Nov 16, 2007 Posts: 276 Location: Rural Western Idaho
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
zzzpeakoil wrote:
If I were a moderator i would have moved your thread from Psychology. Religious sects have nothing to do with psychology, but with psychopathy.
I'm going to give you a break here, and say that I'll bet you meant "psychopathology".
Quote:
You are totally ridiculous to think that "God" can be of any help to anybody, or even to think it has anything to do with peak oil.
Why would it be totally ridiculous? Please support this statement with SOMETHING.
Quote:
I won't disturb you in your preaching, I don't debate christians, as I am a psycologist and my most interactions with them are in the form of doctor-pacient.
I seriously doubt that you are a "psycologist" (sic), since I practice psychiatry -- and have found that all real psychologists can spell the word correctly. It's sort of a requirement, you see. Oh yes, and we call them "patients", not "pacient".
What I really think you are is an annoying and possibly drunk imposter.
Do not further humiliate yourself with such posts.
Lumpy _________________ Dean Karnazes : "Run when you can, walk when you have to, crawl if you must; just never give up." --- Jackie Joyner-Kersee: "It is better to look forward & prepare, than to look back & regret."
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
Gandalf_the_White wrote:
As of Benedict XVI, I would say that the RCC has one of it's greatest shepherds in history, a man whose sincere faith is inspiring even to me, a true pastor for the last times. I hope that he will have the strength to never compromise as he faces some of the most potent enemies of the truth the devil has ever had at his disposal.
A little flexibility on that birth control thing might be good.
The leader of a mighty herd can start to look like the Pied Piper if adherence to stale dogma is too mindless.
As for criticism of the Catholic church, I get bored with that pretty fast.
Start talking about die off and it turns into talking about which groups to kill first.
Start talking about the fact that Jesus was a Jew and the conversation turns to how Jews run the world and should be stopped.
Start talking about Christianity and it turns into a scrap about my church vs. your church.
Please.
You know what Jesus would say about this conversation?
"Hi, this is Jesus. You're a bunch of dumbasses if you have taken my message of a personal relationship with God, humility, kindness toward others and rejection of wordliness and turned it into a 'my church is better than your church' squabble. This is exactly the kind of legalism I was trying to get people away from in the first place. YOU should worry about YOU. Don't worry about what other people believe. That's between me and them. I hate to say this, but we may have to do another flood."
***
I don't fully understand Catholicism, but I have better things to do than tell Catholics why their faith is not "real" Christianity.
Similarly, if I was a Catholic and heard the Pope talking all that nonsense about Catholicism being the only "true" Christianity, I would probably write him a letter and say:
"Dear Pope,
Please pull your head out of your ass and stop saying stupid divisive things like Catholicism is the only real Christianity. Until you can get your field agents to stop fondling little boys, the church would do well not to tell other Christians they are outside of God's grace. Remember who gets to cast the first stone--and I guarantee you it's not the church that's been best known recently for its priests sexually assaulting children, covering it up for decades and using tithes from the faithful to pay off plaintiffs to avoid further embarrassment. Peace be with you, and next time try to THINK before you open your Pope trap."
I think, if you're a Christian of any stripe, or any other form of spiritual person, it is better to just live and let live. God put the person you disagree with here for one reason or another to walk their path, whatever it may be.
All you can do in the end is try to be good to the folks you don't agree with, state the way you feel, act in accordance with what you understand as correct, and go from there.
Anything else and it just ends up a counterproductive mess.
Frankly, if things go to hell in a handbasket, I'd be just as happy to help a Jew or a Pagan or a Muslim or a Christian and equally happy if they'd lend me a hand.
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4070 Location: Graceland
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:40 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Lumpy wrote:
zzzpeakoil wrote:
If I were a moderator i would have moved your thread from Psychology. Religious sects have nothing to do with psychology, but with psychopathy.
I'm going to give you a break here, and say that I'll bet you meant "psychopathology".
Quote:
You are totally ridiculous to think that "God" can be of any help to anybody, or even to think it has anything to do with peak oil.
Why would it be totally ridiculous? Please support this statement with SOMETHING.
Quote:
I won't disturb you in your preaching, I don't debate christians, as I am a psycologist and my most interactions with them are in the form of doctor-pacient.
I seriously doubt that you are a "psycologist" (sic), since I practice psychiatry -- and have found that all real psychologists can spell the word correctly. It's sort of a requirement, you see. Oh yes, and we call them "patients", not "pacient".
What I really think you are is an annoying and possibly drunk imposter.
Do not further humiliate yourself with such posts.
Lumpy
I agree Lumpy. It seems like even the most hardcore atheist psychologist would understand the role of religion and spirituality in mental health.
I love what Jung had to say about having a "religious outlook" on things as a prerequisite to a balanced mind:
Quote:
Among all my patients in the second half of life--that is to say, over thirty-five--there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.
It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he had lost what the living religions of every age have given to their followers, and none of them has been really healed who did not regain his religious outlook.
Posted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
Lumpy wrote:
zzzpeakoil wrote:
If I were a moderator i would have moved your thread from Psychology. Religious sects have nothing to do with psychology, but with psychopathy.
I'm going to give you a break here, and say that I'll bet you meant "psychopathology".
Quote:
You are totally ridiculous to think that "God" can be of any help to anybody, or even to think it has anything to do with peak oil.
Why would it be totally ridiculous? Please support this statement with SOMETHING.
Quote:
I won't disturb you in your preaching, I don't debate christians, as I am a psycologist and my most interactions with them are in the form of doctor-pacient.
I seriously doubt that you are a "psycologist" (sic), since I practice psychiatry -- and have found that all real psychologists can spell the word correctly. It's sort of a requirement, you see. Oh yes, and we call them "patients", not "pacient".
What I really think you are is an annoying and possibly drunk imposter.
Do not further humiliate yourself with such posts.
Lumpy
I agree Lumpy. It seems like even the most hardcore atheist psychologist would understand the role of religion and spirituality in mental health.
I love what Jung had to say about having a "religious outlook" on things as a prerequisite to a balanced mind:
Quote:
Among all my patients in the second half of life--that is to say, over thirty-five--there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.
It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he had lost what the living religions of every age have given to their followers, and none of them has been really healed who did not regain his religious outlook.
I think a connection or at least a vague understanding of the infinite/unknowable is important. I went tripping down that atheist road a while. I nearly lost what little mind I had taking rationalism and materialism TOO FAR.
It's still hard getting back to it, but there is something to be said for the peace it brings. If I'm crazy for it. I'd rather be.
That said, each to their own. It isn't for me to say what you should believe. Each person has to make that decision alone. And since God thought up free will...I think we have to assume He had something in mind So, I'm not going to mess with it! Falling away from faith and coming back can add strength, too.
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:00 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
SolarDave wrote:
Gandalf_the_White wrote:
This is a thread where I intend to answer any and all questions about my christian faith and peak oil that I can. ...
Observation/question:
In a way, mankind is going about the business of making oil "extinct." Burn it all, use it all, consume it all, whatever.
It appears similar human behavior is causing many species to become extinct.
I know that is a very vague comparison of outcomes, but the causes seem to be somewhat similar - lack of respect for the value of the thing being consumed, and eventually no more thing. The recent Salmon news comes to mind.
What is the Christian take on mankind eating a species to extinction or consuming a natural resource to depletion? Is there anything like "though shalt not mindlessly consume" or is it all "got forth and multiply" - resulting in no fish, no oil, no space, no clean water, no rain forests, no .... I guess another way to phrase it is "Is God a Cornucopian?" as in "Don't worry, I'll make more?"
I never hear any of my Christian acquaintances lament the loss of species on the way to their SUVs. If they care that little about permanently eradicating living things, why would they care care about using up liquid hydrocarbons, which are not alive? Should they care? Is there anything inherently "sinful" about Human Beings consuming an earthly thing (animal, vegetable, mineral) out of existence?
Sorry if this is off topic, or too metaphysical. Like I said, treat it as an observation if it's a ridiculous question like "what does the color blue weigh?".
Hey there,
I'll give you some reasoning that I think shines a light on it. If you want something more detailed with maybe more scripture references just ask and I'll do my best.
On the issue of polluting the world to the point that would cause ourselves ill health, I think it must be easy to argue that if God is at least as smart as I am that He did not intend that when he told them to subdue the earth and till it and keep it, and go forth and multiply. There is also some hint that the responsibilities of the Garden of Eden to groom it were different than the life man found after that when in hard labor he would work the land. Eden was more like hunter/gatherer paradise, or so the description would seem. I don't want to focus on whether you believe in the Garden of Eden as a real place or as a metaphor.
As for the species that are not important to us. Most American Christians live with little real concern as far as I can tell. I personally do not live that way, I respect life the more so because I believe it was created though perhaps not in the form we see it now. The ecosystems are themselves sublime organisms. I reserve the right of any other animal to survive and to shape the ecosystem in line with our mutual needs. Though I believe humans are more than animals, and because of this I feel we have an extra responsibility to take only what is reasonable. Science, used in a certain way, has allowed us to distance ourselves from the nature of our impact and I think sin has used that to produce a society that can only bring forth death in the end. Fortunately, our way of life will be the death of itself long before it is the death of all life on earth. I believe the Lord will return long before that, but even if by some chance I am wrong, I think a visitor finding earth in ten million years would be hard pressed to find evidence of the age of oil unless they already knew what they were looking for.
Does that answer the question? The Bible actually is filled with alot of interesting references to different species of animals that suggests the Jews had knowledge of the ecosystem and respected it. Why would they use the ants as a metaphor for prudence and thrift if they did not at least observe them enough to see how they work?
There is a Body of believers in America today, and then there is the American church. The intersection is non-empty, but some part of the apparent church is not Christian at all.
Have you ever heard of the emmergent church? Just wondering what you think about that. How about the House Church Movement? _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Last edited by Gandalf_the_White on Fri May 02, 2008 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2740 Location: The Entropisphere
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:37 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
clueless wrote:
wisconsin_cur wrote:
If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.' Revelation 13:10
Quote:
Does this mean that it is ok to kill the home invaders or that the it is ok to be killed by them? Or perhaps whatever the end result is, is ok?
Welcome Gandalf, you picked to great place to battle principalities and powers.
One thing to remember about Wisconsin_Cur - He is a self titled "Post Modern" Christian, I am not sure what that means, but he is opposed to any sense of absolute truth. Debating/Discussion with him will lead to frustration, because he has a semblance of Christianity but opposes it's absolute truth. His questions are leading and offensive, and he is clearly ashamed of the Gospel.
It is very interesting clueless that you confess yo do not know what I mean and then go on to interpret it. Who is speaking with forked tongue?
I believe more in absolute truth that you could imagine, I just do not believe that it is obvious or that humanity will come to agreement upon it. To say that I am post-modern is to say that we have many different worldviews and what is "common sense" is not common but a product of culture and family. To some, theism is "common sense" to others atheism is granted the same title. I'm just saying there can be sincere differences of opinion about truth and that we should be able to discuss them pleasantly.
It is called humility, Christians use to consider it a virtue. You should give it a try sometime.
My question was leading. I want to know where GTW sees Jesus in all of this. He went straight to the OT for his moral guidance. I would think that Jesus, as the interpreter of the Law, as the image of the unseen, should have something to say. I think he said it rather plainly, but most people try to avoid it. As I catch up on the thread I will look forward to seeing if anyone confronts anything that is actually difficult (ie do not resist the evil man). _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
-Friedrich von Schiller
"What I try, may not work. It may be ineffective. It might even turn out in the pages of history to be the exact wrong thing to do, but I'm going to try to do what I c
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:11 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
wisconsin_cur wrote:
clueless wrote:
wisconsin_cur wrote:
If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.' Revelation 13:10
Quote:
Does this mean that it is ok to kill the home invaders or that the it is ok to be killed by them? Or perhaps whatever the end result is, is ok?
Welcome Gandalf, you picked to great place to battle principalities and powers.
One thing to remember about Wisconsin_Cur - He is a self titled "Post Modern" Christian, I am not sure what that means, but he is opposed to any sense of absolute truth. Debating/Discussion with him will lead to frustration, because he has a semblance of Christianity but opposes it's absolute truth. His questions are leading and offensive, and he is clearly ashamed of the Gospel.
It is very interesting clueless that you confess yo do not know what I mean and then go on to interpret it. Who is speaking with forked tongue?
I believe more in absolute truth that you could imagine, I just do not believe that it is obvious or that humanity will come to agreement upon it. To say that I am post-modern is to say that we have many different worldviews and what is "common sense" is not common but a product of culture and family. To some, theism is "common sense" to others atheism is granted the same title. I'm just saying there can be sincere differences of opinion about truth and that we should be able to discuss them pleasantly.
It is called humility, Christians use to consider it a virtue. You should give it a try sometime.
My question was leading. I want to know where GTW sees Jesus in all of this. He went straight to the OT for his moral guidance. I would think that Jesus, as the interpreter of the Law, as the image of the unseen, should have something to say. I think he said it rather plainly, but most people try to avoid it. As I catch up on the thread I will look forward to seeing if anyone confronts anything that is actually difficult (ie do not resist the evil man).
The passage that suggests that Christians should turn the other cheek is often not dealt with. Jesus told us to go the extra mile, and turn the other cheek and you know what that means in a plain reading. It includes the reference Paul makes to the psalms, 'like sheep led to the slaughter.'
The problem with expecting such high devotion out of everyone is that people turn and run from it. The passage accepts a wide range of Christian response to unjust treatment and not everyone is gifted with the faith it takes to be a martyr. Trying to narrow that down to a Biblical mandate of martyrdom as a sign of salvation is far too narrow. If you read of the martyrdom of Polycarp for instance you will se that God lead Him carefully all of His life and in the end Polycarp found the strength when formerly he had run.
Mark ran away from Paul's side when persecution got too severe. Paul later said that Mark was of great value to him in the ministry. A completely New Testament view does not allow me to condemn others for their sins. Bible believers however should take comfort in this verse,
'No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, that you may be able to endure it.'
1 Corinthians 10:13
And Paul more so than others was qualified to make that assertion (see 2 Corinthians chapter 10)
If you are asking me whether the American church has fled from suffering to embrace luxury and if this will be it's undoing, I believe this is true. But Christians can suffer in other ways that may not be evident by the trappings of material wealth. The Bible often reaffirms that the Christian life before the second coming will be filled with trials, and that riches can be a great stumbling block. Certainly the challenge that began with Constantine's conversion 1700 years ago has altered the church in ways modern Christians barely understand.
And yet whenever churches seem to try to return to the communal practices of the early Christians, abuses and failures seem always to result. There is more to know here than we have talked about, though it is clearly written in the Bible.
There is no easy answer. You must do what you believe is right, and those acts which you have faith to produce. _________________ I return to you now at the turning of the tide.
Last edited by Gandalf_the_White on Fri May 02, 2008 3:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: May 10, 2007 Posts: 2740 Location: The Entropisphere
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
Quote:
The problem with expecting such high devotion out of everyone is that people turn and run from it. The passage accepts a wide range of Christian response to unjust treatment and not everyone is gifted with the faith it takes to be a martyr. Trying to narrow that down to a Biblical mandate of martyrdom as a sign of salvation is fat too narrow. If you read of the martyrdom of Polycarp for instance you will se that God lead Him carefully all of His life and in the end Polycarp found the strength.
So it is not incumbent because it is hard?
Of course it usually is not an issue of martyrdom. The mennonites and the Amish have held to a position of non-resistance for nearly 500 years, most of them have lived long lives.
They did not kill when the Lutherans and Catholics were hunting and killing them and they have fled from space to space in order to avoid compulsrary military service.
If all you have is an easy Christianity than you can keep it, it isn't worth anything. It won't save you or anyone else.
Luke 6
Quote:
46"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."
G.K. Chesterton once said,
Quote:
it's not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting but that it has been found hard and not tried.
It is funny really, it is the same kind of fuzzy thinking that leads people to say that there cannot be an irreversible peak in oil production because living post-peak would be too hard.
I would love to hear clueless on this. Does he believe in absolute truth only until it gets hard? _________________ "Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain."
-Friedrich von Schiller
"What I try, may not work. It may be ineffective. It might even turn out in the pages of history to be the exact wrong thing to do, but I'm going to try to do what I c
Joined: Nov 16, 2007 Posts: 276 Location: Rural Western Idaho
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
BigTex wrote:
I love what Jung had to say about having a "religious outlook" on things as a prerequisite to a balanced mind:
"Among all my patients in the second half of life--that is to say, over thirty-five--there has not been one whose problem in the last resort was not that of finding a religious outlook on life.
It is safe to say that every one of them fell ill because he had lost what the living religions of every age have given to their followers, and none of them has been really healed who did not regain his religious outlook."
Great quote, Tex. Thanks for posting it.
Lumpy (for the most part, a big-time Jung fan) _________________ Dean Karnazes : "Run when you can, walk when you have to, crawl if you must; just never give up." --- Jackie Joyner-Kersee: "It is better to look forward & prepare, than to look back & regret."
Joined: Sep 13, 2005 Posts: 1250 Location: Just the right place
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
wisconsin_cur wrote:
It is very interesting clueless that you confess yo do not know what I mean and then go on to interpret it. Who is speaking with forked tongue?
I believe more in absolute truth that you could imagine, I just do not believe that it is obvious or that humanity will come to agreement upon it. To say that I am post-modern is to say that we have many different worldviews and what is "common sense" is not common but a product of culture and family. To some, theism is "common sense" to others atheism is granted the same title. I'm just saying there can be sincere differences of opinion about truth and that we should be able to discuss them pleasantly.
It is called humility, Christians use to consider it a virtue. You should give it a try sometime.
My question was leading. I want to know where GTW sees Jesus in all of this. He went straight to the OT for his moral guidance. I would think that Jesus, as the interpreter of the Law, as the image of the unseen, should have something to say. I think he said it rather plainly, but most people try to avoid it. As I catch up on the thread I will look forward to seeing if anyone confronts anything that is actually difficult (ie do not resist the evil man).
Wis, You and I have spoken before. I know what you believe by your own words. Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God and the source of absolute truth ?
Yes or No ? Just a simple question. Please do not use the "there are many translations" argument. Just to anticipate it, do you believe the orginal autographs are the inspired word of God ? If you do, then we can claim some common ground, if you do not, you are not a Biblical Christian. God states in his word he "exalts his word above his very name". If you say yes I ask your forgiveness and we can move on, if no, you are not a "Biblical Christian".
I am always open to rebuke and correction Wis, What exactly do you mean by my having a lack of humility ? I am of the standpoint that my purpose as a Christian is to spread the truth, I believe you (and many on these blogs) to be decieved and therefore condemmed - I wish and desire to see all of those here come to the knowledge of the Truth, is there something wrong with that ?
Joined: Sep 13, 2005 Posts: 1250 Location: Just the right place
Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:36 am Post subject: Re: Christian Perspectives on Peak Oil
wisconsin_cur wrote:
So it is not incumbent because it is hard?
Of course it usually is not an issue of martyrdom. The mennonites and the Amish have held to a position of non-resistance for nearly 500 years, most of them have lived long lives.
They did not kill when the Lutherans and Catholics were hunting and killing them and they have fled from space to space in order to avoid compulsrary military service.
If all you have is an easy Christianity than you can keep it, it isn't worth anything. It won't save you or anyone else.
Luke 6
Quote:
46"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."
G.K. Chesterton once said,
Quote:
it's not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting but that it has been found hard and not tried.
It is funny really, it is the same kind of fuzzy thinking that leads people to say that there cannot be an irreversible peak in oil production because living post-peak would be too hard.
I would love to hear clueless on this. Does he believe in absolute truth only until it gets hard?
Wis, The Christian Church has always flourished during "hard times", the reality about that is and something I proclaim to my CHristian Peers is that we are currently living in the exception rather than the rule. Am I looking forward to hard times ? My flesh certianly does not, but my spirit longs for a day when mankind will be forced to accept reality rather than fantasy. It is nearly impossible to get the average persons attention about anything these days, in many ways hard times will make things much easier. I have three young boys and I would rather raised them in a world where things are not as
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So, I'm not going to mess with it! Falling away from faith and coming back can add strength, too.
