The Great Siberian Methane Melt is off and running

dissident · Heavy Crude Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 389

Re: SO2 climate engineering.

We need Pinatubo levels of SO2 released into the stratosphere on a continuous or biennial basis. Around 10 megatons average every year. Since SO2 is very good at forming aerosols (via H2SO4 which adsorbs H2O) it will be sedimented out rather quickly (e.g. the Pinatubo injection flushed out after less than five years with the bulk gone after two years).

We have no current technology to deliver 10 million tons of gas into the stratosphere directly. Proposals talk about cannons lofted on balloons, etc. We need to deliver it in a dispersed fashion. Since sulfate aerosol is the prime seed for heterogeneous chemistry (via supersaturated ternary solutions which also act freezing nuclei for ice) we can expect more robust ozone holes.

dohboi · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1158

Thanks for the graphic, xironman. Any idea how likely it is that some of that surface heat will make it down to the ocean floor? Could evaporation increase the surface salinity so much that, even though it's hot, the warm surface water would become heavier than the cooler water below and sink to the bottom?

I know something like that happens with the thermohalide circulation in the Atlantic. I had never thought about the same type of thing happening in the Arctic.

pedalling_faster · Intermediate Crude Joined: Dec 10, 2005 Posts: 763

btu2012

If the ocean clathrates release then we are fubar. No further discussion.
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only the paranoid survive

dohboi · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1158

Welcome back to the discussion, btu. You seem to get this basic point. What are your favorite sources of info on clathrates?

btu2012

Hi dohboy,

I think that you need to go to the papers for the GW aspects. There isn't so much that's known for sure except from paleo studies (and the conclusions from that aren't encouraging).

About exploration etc you can try this:

http://www.netl.doe.gov/technologies/oil-gas/futuresupply/methanehydrates/newsletter/newsletter.htm

Anyway, the idea that we can engineer climate is vastly premature. It would be like playing with matches in a powder room. Talk about hubris.
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only the paranoid survive

dohboi · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1158

Thanks for the link, and I certainly agree about hubris. This is a Greek word that seems to originally refered to uncontrolled growth that goes beyond all reasonable or natural bounds. Pretty good description of our current situation.

skeptik

dohboi · Light Sweet Crude Joined: Dec 05, 2005 Posts: 1158

Don't be a nitwit, skepto. His being a paid stooge for the denialist lobby has everything to do with it. It means he has no interest in the truth about this utterly serious issue, so is perfectly willing to distort, misrepresent, spin, and cherry pick data to make it fit his preconceived agenda.

And either you know this and are being cute or insincere yourself, or you don't know this and are a complete and utter dolt. I suspect that the former is the case.

Briefly, the fact that methane seemed to have plateaued for a period at historically very high levels is no cause for great comfort. Since methane usually only stays in the atmosphere for about ten years, for it to be maintained at that high level means massive new sources of methane must be coming into the system. And what ever comfort you might get out of that is now dashed, since methane levels are now on the rise again even above these incredibly high levels.

Again, he either knew these facts and chose to spin and misrepresent them in a way to please his funders, or he was ignorant of them and was just mouthing the words given him by the ones pulling the strings. Either way, all one can really say is---pathetic.

btu2012 · Last edited by btu2012 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 4:11 pm; edited 3 times in total

btu2012

Skeptik,

Learn what happened in the past when methane hydrates were released in quantity. The outcome of that would be so serious (quite likely human extinction) that we can't afford taking the risk of that happening. We are like kids playing with a nuclear bomb.

If that happens then it's game over, for us and most other species.
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only the paranoid survive

eric_b

GregWatson · Heavy Crude Joined: Jun 07, 2008 Posts: 100