Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1433 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:39 pm Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
Gee mos, miss me? It took you days to find me over here under environment. (For those who don't know, mos is my personal troll. I've actually grown quite fond of him.) _________________ Time to recognize there are only two classes of people; those that stole the wealth of America and those that got fleeced.
Last edited by Cid_Yama on Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
auscanman wrote:
According to that map wheat will be grown on parts of
the Canadian Shield by 2050 (the 2/3 of Canada that is full of small
lakes on the map)! The soil (or rather rock) of the Canadian Shield
isn't suitable for growing any fruit, grains or vegetables other than
wild berries.
No duh. You think just because the land isn't good that's going to
keep the climate from changing? The fact is that area is smaller,
in rocky soil and less sunny, obviously grain production will shrink.
That's the point, get it?
And it's the same deal with a mega-drought hitting our Southwest
and drought hitting other parts of the country too. This will means less
grain production, not more.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
Cid_Yama wrote:
Gee mos, miss me? It took you days to find me over here under
environment. (For those who don't know, mos is my personal troll.
I've found I've grown quite fond of him and actually feel honored to
have been assigned my own personal troll.)
Yeah it's too bad too since borderline stalking tends to discredit a
person, it really takes away from his credibility.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
Cid_Yama wrote:
Gee mos, miss me? It took you days to find me over here under environment. (For those who don't know, mos is my personal troll. I've actually grown quite fond of him.)
I think that he simply doesn't like your anti-American bent. It means that he disagrees with you, not that he is a troll.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1433 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:02 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
It never occurred to me I was being stalked. Bad mos. Run along now. No doggie treats for you. _________________ Time to recognize there are only two classes of people; those that stole the wealth of America and those that got fleeced.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1433 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 12:11 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
That would be anti-Bush Administration. You guys all want to destroy the United States of America, turn this place into Mexamerada, trash the Constitution and turn everyone into pennyless serfs.
And, No, he does search me out just to nip at my heels and never provides a counter-argument or documentation. That's a Troll. Or as Steam_Cannon says, a stalker.
I've noticed you've been running with the pack lately, btu. The new third leg of the 3 amigos. (and of course everyone knows what the third leg refers to) _________________ Time to recognize there are only two classes of people; those that stole the wealth of America and those that got fleeced.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
[quote="Cashmere"]
Quote:
It has been 1.1 million years since the Arctic had an ice-free summer, long before humans existed.
That recently?
Wow, I wouldn't have thought so. When you consider the planet is 8 billion years old, that's like a second ago.
The earth is estimated to be 4.5 billion yo.
Cashmere wrote:
Hey, did you know the following:
Quote:
During the most recent North American glaciation, the Wisconsin glaciation (70,000 to 10,000 years ago), ice sheets extended to about 45 degrees north latitude. These sheets were 3 to 4 km thick.
There were 3-4 kilometer thick (about 2.4 miles) ice sheets in Wisconsin as recently as 10,000 years ago.
10,000 years ago!
Wow, that's 1/1,000 the blink of an eye.
Think about it - that was just a few thousand years before the Cradle of Civilization got going.
That's the point. Agriculture wasn't able to get underway until the start of this most recent interglacial period. The retreat of the glaciers paved the way for our big adventure with the environment.
Cashmere wrote:
So, given that we went from 2 mile thick ice sheets in Wisconsin to green grass and warm summers in just 10,000 years, and lived to tell about it . . .
tell me again, body snatchers, why a couple of degrees over 90 years is cataclysmic?
It's gotta be a lot easier coping with advancing ice and plunging temps (or warming temps and rising seas for that matter)if all you've gotta do is pack up your animal skins and follow the game herds to warmer climes with hardly any people in them. Packing up modern cities and dense populations, and trying to move to places already teeming with other humans, would mean chaos and carnage on an almost unimaginable scale.
Read 'Under a Green Sky' by Peter Ward and then tell me why you think a couple of degrees, and rising CO2, is nothing to worry about.
The problem with that map is simple, they are assuming everything south of 50 degrees will no longer produce wheat due to Global Warming whicle at the same time Wheat is being grown in tropical countries TODAY!
You can argue that a big chunk of the Great Plains will lack water to grow wheat by 2050, but to say basically the entire USA will be a dessert? Get real NYTimes, Flyover country is not all the Mojave !!! _________________ Oxygen: - An intensely habit-forming accumulative toxic substance. As little
as one breath is known to produce a life-long addiction to the gas, which addiction invariably ends in death.--Isaac Asimov
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1165 Location: Central NC
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
steam_cannon wrote:
auscanman wrote:
According to that map wheat will be grown on parts of
the Canadian Shield by 2050 (the 2/3 of Canada that is full of small
lakes on the map)! The soil (or rather rock) of the Canadian Shield
isn't suitable for growing any fruit, grains or vegetables other than
wild berries.
No duh. You think just because the land isn't good that's going to
keep the climate from changing? The fact is that area is smaller,
in rocky soil and less sunny, obviously grain production will shrink.
That's the point, get it?
And it's the same deal with a mega-drought hitting our Southwest
and drought hitting other parts of the country too. This will means less
grain production, not more.
It's pretty darned simple.
I didn't read Ausc. post that way. More along the lines of the map is misleading since it doesn't say the new area is totally unsuitable to commercial agriculture.
The masses in the U.S. don't know how to find the Atlantic ocean on a map. They sure as crap dont know crap about central northern canada.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
Quote:
*hands Ludi a candle and horse-driven plow(plough)* how exciting - just discovered another deviation in AmericanStandard English from British England English.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
Homesteader wrote:
More along the lines of the map is misleading since it doesn't say
the new area is totally unsuitable to commercial agriculture.
The area is less suitable for farming then the great planes but
Canada presently has 4.57% arable land. How I read that map is,
that number will be going up. And there is presently agriculture in
Alaska and a lot more overlapping then that etchi-sketch map
seems to imply.
Tanada wrote:
You can argue that a big chunk of the Great Plains will lack water to
grow wheat by 2050, but to say basically the entire USA will be a
dessert? Get real NYTimes, Flyover country is not all the Mojave !!!
Is this a new argument technique, argument by overstating the obvious?
On second thought, I suppose it's not that new an argument.
It's just like saying, "Oil isn't running out, there is lots of oil in the ground!"
Obviously true, but that statement is forgetting a couple things
like demand, quality and extraction rates...
My point in posting some info about the drying in the southwest
was not to imply that the whole country would become desert but
to explain one part of that map. Ethiopia is not all desert, but it is
only 10% arable. Our country presently has 18% arable land.
Sure the coast will still have moisture, but keep in mind that if we
lose a few percent of our arable land, that's going to change things
a lot and that's the point of that map.
But hey, take it or leave it. It's just a long report summarized
by a poorly drawn picture.
Last edited by steam_cannon on Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:07 am; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
Cid_Yama wrote:
It never occurred to me I was being stalked. Bad mos. Run along
now. No doggie treats for you.
I do want to clarify here that what mos is doing is getting a little on
the weird side, but it's nothing against the code of conduct or stalking
like posting info or causing problems. Mos isn't doing anything very wrong.
And personally, I can think of a few posters that I could learn a lot
from if I followed their posts, but somehow I don't think learning is
mos's intention. And good point about not giving out treats...
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3636 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: Re: Arctic Ice may 'melt away' this summer
steam_cannon wrote:
And personally, I can think of a few posters that I could learn a lot
from if I followed their posts, but somehow I don't think learning is
mos's intention. And good point about not giving out treats...
I think I made my point in an earlier critique. Cid seems to wants to scapegoat the US for the world's problems. My "response" is that there is plenty of blame to go around. Cid has just chosen to ignore the damage done by any other actors besides those on his personal crap-list. I think scapegoating is a childish approach to a world crisis.
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