Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
I have got to say I am impressed and yet at the same time worried about his candidacy. Hes smart enough to see through this crap and I am coming to believe hes got a much better grasp of peak oil than either McCain or Hillary. However not pandering to the ignorant masses on the issue of big oil and taxes might be his undoing.
I have got to say I am impressed and yet at the same time worried about his candidacy. Hes smart enough to see through this crap and I am coming to believe hes got a,much better grasp of peak oil than either McCain or Hillary. However not pandering to the ignorant masses on the issue of big oil and taxes might be his undoing.
So far, the polls I've seen support Obama on this issue. If that holds up, I will be impressed. Mccain was grinding his teeth behind his facade of happy calmness as a reporter was asking about Tom Friedman's Column on the gas tax holiday idea. He was really pissed.
Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
When gas prices can shoot up 21 cents over night like they have in some parts of the country or easily within two weeks, most people aren't too impressed with an 18 cent reduction.
I'm not surprised by Hillary or really by Obama (he's quite intelligent and not so much a panderer); but McCain? He should know that an "artificial" reduction in price will lead to more demand and thus higher prices. Quite a shame that he stooped this low. Absolutely no chance that I'll be voting for him _________________ Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind.
Joined: Jun 28, 2005 Posts: 325 Location: san jose CA
Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
Well I really hope what Dinopello said about the American people not falling for this scam is correct. Maybe its because gas prices would still be averaging highs above last years record and also the fact its only going to be temporary is the reason its really not cutting it for Americans. I think a smart move for Obama would be to emphasize the fact it'll cost blue collar "the workin mans" construction jobs and the transportation infrastructure will even further deteriorate. I mean people here in Cali always bitch about the crappy roads, its a bipartisan issue that people complain about across the political spectrum. That'd be a smart angle for Obama to play on this issue I think.
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:56 am Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
I think even the sheeple are smart enough to realize after a week or two, Big Oil would simply raise their price to get most of what had been gas taxes for themselves.
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 3:57 am Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
I think even the sheeple are smart enough to realize after a week or two, Big Oil would simply raise their price to get most of what had been gas taxes for themselves.
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
We use 25% of the planet's oil production, and we have
come to think of it as our divine mandate. Lacking anything
terrible from Obama directly to use to smear him, they settled
on his center stage, all about himself Reverend. He showed
him loyalty until the guy just stepped on it so terribly that he
was indefensible.
Our news is a private enterprise and it molds the news to suit
it's advertisers and it's own private interests, (this includes
the more hawkish view of the broad Jewish gamut) it owns
the candidates during their election processes and is one of
the most powerful lobbyist actions on our government, period.
Once a candidate gets in, then they get to dance with the
titans of lobbying who own Washington. They are the largest
welfare recipients in the history of mankind, and we are their
collective welfare agents. If they weren't fabulously rich, this
would give us some pull with them I am sure.
Obama is a politician, he is not perfect, but he has shown an
adherence to principles and fairness that John McCain has if
he isn't wooing dead head neocons, but the Clintons both
checked at the door 30 years ago before they entered the
arena. Or perhaps New York really is so devoid of talent that
they have to import it like Tyson chicken from Arkansas.
Kunstler questioned New York needing imported political talent
a long time ago. Clinton is an installed patsy for the New Yorkers
who just love to have Washington as their show dog, and rescue
team when they get a little carried away with THEIR markets.
Most of America is asleep on their consumption and imbalance
in the use of energy or for that matter the planet, but they
are stirring because their tootsies are sticking out of the blanket
and getting cold. If New York can put them back to sleep or scare
them enough to hide under the blanket, the old sham can continue
to run until New York pulls all the money out of the cash cow and
invests it in the emerging markets. Then we can have any kind
of government we want and New York will be off influencing the
Chinese and Indian election process to protect their interests.
Posted: Sun May 04, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
Good point Mos6507, one thing is for certain, Obama is
running with a load of green people against a team that
has been together for a couple of decades. I do business
with folks in Tel Aviv and other places and I am on a lot
of email lists. I hear the pro and con, and I understand
the sentiment that she is more of a sure thing for a portion of
people. I don't think for a moment that Obama is not a
politician, but in all the traditions I have experienced
the elders don't eat the next generation like I see the
Clinton's doing. It is risky and dumb and polarizing.
People who do that to their own rub against my
own experience of how to behave.
If she acted like Golda, or Maggie Thatcher I would have
confidence she can lead in addition to being a warrior.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
This is really a fascinating insight into the pawn shop nation. Gas prices to high? Let's pawn the roads. NOBODY is willing to mention that this might be a long term worsening problem. If I hear the expression "excessive dependence on foreign oil" one more time I think I'm going to scream. Like Saudi Arabia created this problem. Of course Hillary plans to fix it all by raising CAFE standards to 55mpg by 2030! _________________ "I was born in a deep forest
I wish I could live here all my life
I am made from stones and roots
My home, these woods and roads
All my life I loved this sound
Of the woods all around
Eagles fly where the winds blow free" -Korpiklaani
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 8:07 am Post subject: Re: Obama stands firm on gas tax holiday
I feel sorry for Obama or who ever gets in.
And if the roof doesn't fall on him or her, the next pres wills surely get hit with it.
And what do we do when things go bad? They blame it all on the pres.
Like he or she can pull crude and NG out their ass?
Sure oil goes up and down with the BS they hand us. Some of the BS is just greedy excuses. Other times the BS is not BS and based in truth.
But, no matter how we cut it, fossil fuels are a non renewable resource and we are using 31 billion barrels a year of crude worldwide...and usage will only gets worse as time goes by....'Chindia' is just starting out!
Maybe I should not feel too bad for politicians. After all they are ego based power hungry individuals. I imagine they all know about peak oil. They probably view it as a game of musical chairs. Give me power for a day and I only hope the roof falls in on the next guy and the music wont stop on my presidency.
Nothing they can do anyway. To do anything substantive would cause a financial and population backlash of unimaginable proportions.
And what we could do, even with drastic measures, would not cure the problem, but only slow things down. WE CAN'T CHANGE....IT IS ALL WE KNOW!
We have the tiger by the tail, we CAN'T let go and all hell is going to break loose soon
When the subject turns to sustainability...lets be honest, we only pay it lip service.
We talk of living in a sustainable world, yet our actions betray our true feelings. All we have to do is to look at the stock market to see what happens when growth declines even a little.
Even if a company yields stable earning, but does not grow its earnings it is looked down upon. Stability and balance is part of a sustainable footprint, yet we shun such balance.
A good book that discusses concepts of sustainability is: 'Peak Everything' by Richard Heinberg
America is built on debt and spending.
Without compulsive spending and conspicuous consumption we would fail as a country.
70% of our 'economic heath,' better termed as 'economic sickness' is based on consumer spending. When the consumer can't compulsively spend any longer our economy collapses...we are not a healthy country.
Even if we did find out how to burn water for energy, petrochemicals make up a large portion of crude's importance to mankind. Roughly 9% of every barrel of crude goes to petrochemical use. If we stopped burning crude this instant, we would still suck the wells dry, albeit not as quickly, just from petrochemical use.
Some work has been done with making plastics from corn, but it can't touch the variety of plastic and rubber products that crude produces.
So even if we all stop driving we will just be postponing the inevitable that our artificial way of living is going to change in the not so distant future.
From this list we can see that we are still massively depend on crude for our non sustainable lifestyle.
There is no replacement for crude...crude is in the details of our life.
We got other problems right in line with peak oil. NG and crude are right in bed with each other.
Have you ever thought about how much of our life is dependent on natural gas for cooking, heating and hot water?
We will run out of natural gas, just as we deplete our crude supplies in the near future.
Natural gas is a raw material in many of our products we depend on.
Almost all the helium we produce comes from natural gas.
Propane, synthetic fertilizers, ammonia?
They are totally dependent on natural gas.
Our population boom was fueled by synthetic fertilizers made from natural; gas. Once the gas dries up so does the fertilizer and a shortage of fertilizer equals a shortage of food.
Natural; gas is also used as an energy source to produce steel, glass, paper, clothing, brick, electricity
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