Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
AlwaysThere wrote:
(...)
Big Tex, The Christian position is that unredeemed Mankind does not know what is best for him becasue he is DEAD in tresspasses and sins. He cannot reason, experience, or think his way out of his dilema, why ? Becasue he is DEAD, the Bible is clear on that. I will not waste time debating you as you are just as motivated to prove your point as you say I am about proving mine.
What "works for me" is a silly irrellevant term used by a society so far removed from reality that it is utterly incapable of figuring anything out, please spare me the cheap psychology talk, it's obvious.
I am interested in hearing his answer, can you let him speak ? He does not need you to defend him.
You phrased your question in a too generic way. What is "this"? Is it Buddhism? Karma? Meditation? Nirvana?
And you're underestimating humanity while overestimating deities. Maybe in another life you will not be filled with anger and hate fuel (dogma). _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2625 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:12 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
AlwaysThere wrote:
(...)
Big Tex, The Christian position is that unredeemed Mankind does not know what is best for him becasue he is DEAD in tresspasses and sins. He cannot reason, experience, or think his way out of his dilema, why ? Becasue he is DEAD, the Bible is clear on that. I will not waste time debating you as you are just as motivated to prove your point as you say I am about proving mine.
What "works for me" is a silly irrellevant term used by a society so far removed from reality that it is utterly incapable of figuring anything out, please spare me the cheap psychology talk, it's obvious.
I am interested in hearing his answer, can you let him speak ? He does not need you to defend him.
You phrased your question in a too generic way. What is "this"? Is it Buddhism? Karma? Meditation? Nirvana?
And you're underestimating humanity while overestimating deities. Maybe in another life you will not be filled with anger and hate fuel (dogma).
"this" is referring to the following that zensui wrote:
Quote:
Karma can be defined as the consequences of our ethical actions, but not all events in a life are karma. Buddhism has an understanding of ignorance of reality as explained by pratitya-samutpada (interdependant arising, see first table), which applications include the Twelve Nidanas.
But specifically of Karma (the above links are about formation processes in reality, focused on mind), I suggest you read (if interested) a brief list of incorrect understandings of Karma
About chance, I usually say to one of my best friends:
Casualidad or Causalidad? (chance/coincidence or causality?)
There are probabilities, but most significant events in our lives are karmic or produce karma (this takes into account other humans' and organisms' intentionalities).
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
AlwaysThere wrote:
(...)
Quote:
When you say "society so far removed from reality" what do you mean? What is the "reality" from which society is removed? Who decided that?
I will for the sake of time take this to an illogical extreme on order to prove a point. OK - murder and rape "work for me", and if it does work for me then it should be my right to do so.
Enough said ?
You're murdering life every time you eat meat, hypocrite.
You're enforcing your "truth" to others, which can be worded as raping others' minds.
Your "arguments" are weak.
We Buddhists relate and explain evil more as what produces suffering for living beings and good more as what cessates suffering. This, I propose, is an aproximation of an Universal Human Ethics. _________________ anagami.net
Last edited by zensui on Thu May 08, 2008 9:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
BigTex wrote:
[(...)
"this" is referring to the following that zensui wrote:
Quote:
Karma can be defined as the consequences of our ethical actions, but not all events in a life are karma. Buddhism has an understanding of ignorance of reality as explained by pratitya-samutpada (interdependant arising, see first table), which applications include the Twelve Nidanas.
But specifically of Karma (the above links are about formation processes in reality, focused on mind), I suggest you read (if interested) a brief list of incorrect understandings of Karma
About chance, I usually say to one of my best friends:
Casualidad or Causalidad? (chance/coincidence or causality?)
There are probabilities, but most significant events in our lives are karmic or produce karma (this takes into account other humans' and organisms' intentionalities).
That's what I first though, what is the purpose of Karma. But this is like saying what is the purpose of energy, or what is the purpose of a river, or gravity. You understand how some types of flow act to generate the same types of flow, it's continous. Karma is about this, negative causes can only generate negative consequences, positive causes can only generate positive consequences. What's the purpose of Karma implies that some being, probably a deity invented Karma, but questioning this doesn't matter. Karma is about Justice, not Authority, Divinity or Ignorance.
Then I thought, what is the purpose of talking about Karma, or what is the purpose of Buddhism. But this is too obvious for anyone that knows basic Buddhism, the purpose is Nirvana. _________________ anagami.net
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2625 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 9:31 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
BigTex wrote:
[(...)
"this" is referring to the following that zensui wrote:
Quote:
Karma can be defined as the consequences of our ethical actions, but not all events in a life are karma. Buddhism has an understanding of ignorance of reality as explained by pratitya-samutpada (interdependant arising, see first table), which applications include the Twelve Nidanas.
But specifically of Karma (the above links are about formation processes in reality, focused on mind), I suggest you read (if interested) a brief list of incorrect understandings of Karma
About chance, I usually say to one of my best friends:
Casualidad or Causalidad? (chance/coincidence or causality?)
There are probabilities, but most significant events in our lives are karmic or produce karma (this takes into account other humans' and organisms' intentionalities).
That's what I first though, what is the purpose of Karma. But this is like saying what is the purpose of energy, or what is the purpose of a river, or gravity. You understand how some types of flow act to generate the same types of flow, it's continous. Karma is about this, negative causes can only generate negative consequences, positive causes can only generate positive consequences. What's the purpose of Karma implies that some being, probably a deity invented Karma, but questioning this doesn't matter. Karma is about Justice, not Authority, Divinity or Ignorance.
Then I thought, what is the purpose of talking about Karma, or what is the purpose of Buddhism. But this is too obvious for anyone that knows basic Buddhism, the purpose is Nirvana.
Something tells me that AlwaysThere is not going to understand where you're coming from. _________________
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
You phrased your question in a too generic way. What is "this"? Is it Buddhism? Karma? Meditation? Nirvana?
And you're underestimating humanity while overestimating deities. Maybe in another life you will not be filled with anger and hate fuel (dogma).
I am asking this:
Outside of making a physical, earthly impact, Does your belief system have any eternal implications ? Does it impact only this plane of physical existence ?
I am very interested in the Mt. Everest region, those people are Budhist's are they not ? Do they not believe the Moutain is a Diety in itself ?
Last edited by AlwaysThere on Fri May 09, 2008 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 9354 Location: Village of Idiots
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
zensui wrote:
I think it's possible to understand others and be understood, even if humans are different.
I think so too, but it takes some effort from all involved. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 3217 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
BigTex wrote:
zensui wrote:
eastbay wrote:
BigTex wrote:
eastbay wrote:
BT,
I bet you have some gray area growing on your head! That's something I bet we all can see too.
And quit agitating and riling up the new guys. That's an order.
Here we are arguing about religion.
In the Buddhism thread, no less!
Good thing Buddhism isn't a religion or I would add my .02.
Buddhism is a religion, a non theist one.
I think eastbay was kidding with us a bit.
No, I wasn't kidding. Zensui and I may differ here a bit, but certainly in a friendly manner. IMO and in the opinion of most of us Buddhists, Buddhism is about as far from a religion as one can get. That doesn't mean we Buddhists have a problem with religions, in fact, as long as a religion preaches non-anger, peace, metta, auspicious coexistence... among a few other things, I would be quite comfortable with it. _________________ Everything is Impermanent. Shakyamuni Buddha
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 2625 Location: Memphis Dojo
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 2:57 pm Post subject: Re: Peak Oil from a Buddhist perspective
eastbay wrote:
No, I wasn't kidding. Zensui and I may differ here a bit, but certainly in a friendly manner. IMO and in the opinion of most of us Buddhists, Buddhism is about as far from a religion as one can get. That doesn't mean we Buddhists have a problem with religions, in fact, as long as a religion preaches non-anger, peace, metta, auspicious coexistence... among a few other things, I would be quite comfortable with it.
I would say that Buddhism is best understood by the western mind as method. It's a way of doing things, a way of thinking about things, a way of approaching things.
It is not an end in itself. It's a path to travel that may allow a person to arrive at a state of enlightenment by a shorter journey than other paths.
No one worships Buddha. The thought of that is actually amusing.
To me, a Christian who approached his faith using Buddhist techniques would have the potential for being a person of much understanding.
One way of reading Jesus's message is that he was bringing Buddhist ideas to his part of the world, though his adherents obviously interpreted his message in a different way. _________________
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