I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: How are the solar thermal panels transported?
joeltrout wrote:
I have said before either everything is made using petroleum products or is shipped using petroleum products.
I think a bit more detail would give everyone a better picture of what's going on. And maybe a percentage of what is used where? For instance, coal generation for electricity is quite popular, and that electricity is likely used to some degree in just about anything, however, it would disingenuous to say that we couldn't function w/o coal, especially given the time period to transition. _________________
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4377 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: How are the solar thermal panels transported?
joeltrout wrote:
People think we can become oil-free but it is impossible.
We can't be oil free but we can be petroleum free. In other words, not all oil must come from petroleum. Even if all the petroleum in the world was gone, we could still make petroleum-derived products from vegetable oils, as long as demand was manageable enough. Obviously there isn't enough arable land for this to solve transport. It might be enough for plastics and libricants.
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: Re: How are the solar thermal panels transported?
joeltrout wrote:
yesplease wrote:
And maybe a percentage of what is used where?
I see your point but it would be impossible to use percentages to measure the amount of oil used in products and shipping.
I don't think it would be impossible to get a ballpark number, just time consuming. For instance, solar thermal panels would probably brought from the factory to a train by semi truck, then off the train and to their site by truck again. It'll require "X" amount of diesel, as well as prorated oil/grease consumption for the truck's engine/trans/axles/bearings. Going farther back, the raw materials may or may not be mined using diesel, and each of those machines will be treated similarly. I suppose it's tedious, but not impossible IMO.
joeltrout wrote:
I just want people to realize what all oil is used in. People think we can become oil-free but it is impossible.
joeltrout
We don't have to become oil free overnight, simply electrifying personal transportation could've been done for less than the cost of the occupation in Iraq and dropped consumption by ~60-70%, the remainder of which could power the rest of US infrastructure. Although a great deal of that could be replaced if we decided to expand, and possible electrify rail.
Based on results, all the current administration has done is drive up the price of oil, so I doubt something I described would've ever happened, but it was possible. _________________
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: Re: How are the solar thermal panels transported?
heroineworshipper wrote:
Now that's an unfair question. U might as well ask how indium oxide & silicon are mined, extracted, purified, & baked. Why can't U just buy Green Tech without asking so many questions?
Asking about the manufacturing is a much more pertinant question than asking about the near negligable transportation energy cost of solar panel distribution.
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