Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic38766.html _________________ "We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time." - TS Eliot*
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:50 am Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
You've brought up an interesting question. Let me throw this out, hard assets like land may go up in value slower than inflation during a period of high inflation. However, if there is a period of stability after the high inflation then the value of the land will stabilize over time. I think the same can be said for stocks, if the company is viable after the period of high inflation the value of the stock will rise to the appropriate new level.
Now, with all of that said, I've greatly reduced the amount I'm putting into stocks (I'm just doing enough to get my employers match) and I've switched to buying land. One of the main reasons I've switched to land is that too many people are making whopper incomes off of stocks and I've decided that all income prodcued by my investment should flow to me.
Joined: Dec 25, 2005 Posts: 389 Location: Hillsboro, West Virginia
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:16 pm Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
patience wrote:
From the macro view, Micki has it right, IMHO. From my viewpoint as a comparatively poor old guy, my best choices for "investment" lie in things that are productive for me. I am investing in the ability to GROW food, for the reasons others explained here. Since I don't have a lot of excess cash to invest, what happens with Wall Street doesn't affect my choices of investment very much.
Pops touched on the point of some prices being set by other people. That factor alone is enough for me to choose things that only serve me, and are unaffected by the world of finance. My root cellar will store food that I grow, and I will eat it, cooked on my wood stove, all of which will be unaffected by Wall Street, The Fed, the govt, and world trade. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, to get into a position where I can duck the bullets we see coming.
That's the kind of sense I wish everyone had. What does it matter that the farmer can't get a good price on the world market for a crop, if it is a crop he can eat or use in local trades? No matter what the banks say the value of land is in terms of banknotes, the index of value that is by far the more real is how many calories and the range of nutrition it can be made to grow.
Look at the generosity of nature. You plant one seed, and you have a 90% chance (better if your scarecrow is convincing) of harvesting a thousand edible seeds or more, plus perhaps other edible plant matter, before the year's end. Find me any human market that can match that rate of investment gain. There is none.
Not only that, if you know much about wild herbs, you can augment your gains from agriculture with more edible plant matter that you never had to work for. Nature will simply give it to you. So far this year, I've dined on salads made from dandelion leaves & flowers, violet leaves, clover leaves. In a few weeks, I'll add sumac shoots and bull thistle leaf cores. Today, I identified a new species on my land that can be used for tea: gill-over-the-ground. And I've made "Dandelion Quaffee," a coffee substitute. In July, I expect to harvest chickory roots for "Chickory Quaffee" and sumac berries for "Sumacade." I know where burdock grows, and I'll go get some roots in the fall, as well as wild parsnips.
The money system is a sucker's game. No one with land should ever depend on it, and everyone should have land.
Joined: Dec 07, 2005 Posts: 991 Location: Australia
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
Jenab6, anywhere you can share your dendelion recipies and what you thought of the taste?
If I can eat that stuff I'll never go hungry. The backyard is frickin being taken over by them. _________________ "make em laugh make em cry make em dance in the aisles
make em pay make em stay make em feel ok" (PinkFloyd)
Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
Jenab6 wrote:
patience wrote:
From the macro view, Micki has it right, IMHO. From my viewpoint as a comparatively poor old guy, my best choices for "investment" lie in things that are productive for me. I am investing in the ability to GROW food, for the reasons others explained here. Since I don't have a lot of excess cash to invest, what happens with Wall Street doesn't affect my choices of investment very much.
Pops touched on the point of some prices being set by other people. That factor alone is enough for me to choose things that only serve me, and are unaffected by the world of finance. My root cellar will store food that I grow, and I will eat it, cooked on my wood stove, all of which will be unaffected by Wall Street, The Fed, the govt, and world trade. That's the only thing that makes sense to me, to get into a position where I can duck the bullets we see coming.
That's the kind of sense I wish everyone had. What does it matter that the farmer can't get a good price on the world market for a crop, if it is a crop he can eat or use in local trades? No matter what the banks say the value of land is in terms of banknotes, the index of value that is by far the more real is how many calories and the range of nutrition it can be made to grow.
Look at the generosity of nature. You plant one seed, and you have a 90% chance (better if your scarecrow is convincing) of harvesting a thousand edible seeds or more, plus perhaps other edible plant matter, before the year's end. Find me any human market that can match that rate of investment gain. There is none.
Not only that, if you know much about wild herbs, you can augment your gains from agriculture with more edible plant matter that you never had to work for. Nature will simply give it to you. So far this year, I've dined on salads made from dandelion leaves & flowers, violet leaves, clover leaves. In a few weeks, I'll add sumac shoots and bull thistle leaf cores. Today, I identified a new species on my land that can be used for tea: gill-over-the-ground. And I've made "Dandelion Quaffee," a coffee substitute. In July, I expect to harvest chickory roots for "Chickory Quaffee" and sumac berries for "Sumacade." I know where burdock grows, and I'll go get some roots in the fall, as well as wild parsnips.
The money system is a sucker's game. No one with land should ever depend on it, and everyone should have land.
Jerry Abbott
You guys are on the right track. Forget investments in abstract notions or 401 K's. I own silver. But not as an "investment". It helps me to retain what wealth that I have.
We set our priorities by how critical are our basic needs. Food is obviously top priority. As was stated before, if you do not have a years supply of food stored right now you are in a dangerous position even though you may think that you have great investments in things which increase in value faster than inflation. You can't eat a forex futures position. It is time to get real and get out of societies' box. Concepts like "inflation" are merely abstract notions. They aren't real.
How is your water supply? You can only live for a very short time without it. You should have three separate sources of water which you control, not the water company. For instance I have a well Unfortunately the pump is not yet solar powered. I have a spring fed pond which I plan to develop and I have a solar powered rainwater collection system. If we are not focused on these kind of things then anything else that we do is useless.
Patience has it right. Use what money you have to make sure that you can viably function for an extended time without a government infrastructure. It is the best investment that you can make. It beats stocks, bonds, currency trading, 401 K's, etc. Do it now. If you wait until tomorrow, what money you have will be worth less. Spending your money now on actual things to support future survival gives you the most bang for your buck. By buying my water tanks last year I saved two hundred dollars over buying them this year.
There is no guarantee that you will be able to receive the medical care that you need in the near or far future. What are you going to do about it? Keep your money in a 401 K until TSHTF ? If you depend on pharmaceutical drugs to maintain your life, have you been exploring replacement alternatives which you can either supply yourself or stockpile? Forget legalities. It is your life.
To keep playing the game can kill you. Stop playing financial games and get on with the real life job of survival. Preferably with style. _________________ "I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true."
Led Zeppelin
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
Thanks for the kind words folks. Now, if I can just get some more of my fine plans done and functional! Most of it is up and running, but too many are not. Our push this year is to make it all happen. _________________ Local fix-it guy..
Joined: Jan 03, 2005 Posts: 976 Location: western Wisconsin
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
My investments include PVs and wind generators to provide electricity, tools to make and repair almost anything that we use, books to teach or remind me how to do almost anything, gardens and orchard that are established and producing, and the tools needed to plant, cultivate, harvest, store, and use the food we grow. We have building materials on hand to complete the projects that are on our "to do" lists, and are getting rid of cars, motorcycles, farm machinery, etc., that we don't need, so we can buy more PV panels and batteries for our electric cars.
Money in the bank or in stocks or bonds is kind of scary to me.
Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
That's the ticket. Never lose your focus. We don't know how much time we have. But the one thing we do know is that it will never be enough. Get rid of all those things which are distractions and get on with the nuts and bolts of preparation. (that reminds me, I don't have enough nuts and bolts). _________________ "I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true."
Led Zeppelin
Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: How Long until Inflation destroys our Investments
Windmills wrote:
My wife and I decided to forgoe her employer's 401K and instead use the money to buy things we need around the house, like topsoil. I have serious doubts that people will get anything out of their retirement investments 30 years from now. I think there are better ways that money can be spent that will go much farther in providing basic needs when they are required much sooner than retirement time.
For 5+ years now I have been saying that poeple who think they are going to retire on the farce of a 401K are in for one massive rude awakening when it's too late. Some may be able to retire but the vast majority won't. Articles are only now in the MSM backing this up. Companies didn't switch from pension plans to a 401K so their employees would retire better off. They did it to fatten the executives pay and shareholders. If you have one, you obviosuly have to match the max but it is a farce none the less.
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