Kunstler vs Heinberg

zeke · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 07, 2007 Posts: 83

Well, just finished reading "The Party's Over" at the suggestion of someone here.

I'd read kunstler's TLE back in 2005.

I can honestly say that the message of both books is very close to being identical.

the difference? Kunstler's approach is "WTF are you doing!?!? Can't You SEE the WOS we're in???"

Heinberg's approach: "Here are the (spine chilling) facts. I'll leave it up to you, but here are some tips."

IOW, both authors get to the same place, both in terms of history, facts, and theorization about what's likely to happen IF this or that.

I still have no problem with Kunstler's approach, because we ARE in deep $hit, and we HAVE made some deliriously stupid choices as a culture.

Heinberg is prbly more likely to catch more eyes and ears with his more even-handed tone, but the two are essentially delivering the same message.

Just how I see it.

I would add that Kunstler's approach and whether it appears Chicken Little or Hysterical is relative to what the establishment media are doing with the issue, which is to basically ignore it, or sandwich it in between the Paris Hilton Report, and the Sports.

So, some guy comes along talking about depletion of the world's most important industrial commodity, and it does seem nutty against the backdrop of "all's well."

zeke
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pstarr · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:22 am Post subject: Re: Kunstler vs Heinberg

Heinberg is in academia, specifically the liberal arts/social sciences side which is pretty optimistic. He teaches at a somewhat 'new age' college in Sonoma, CA. He is paid to be 'green,' and optimistic, and he works within the system.

Kunstler has been an angry professional critique of suburbia for at least 15 years (since his 'Geography of Nowhere' around 1994). He writes alone and is not part of an organization. He is paid to be a curmudgeon.

But they are both saying pretty much the same thing--the reigning automobile/suburban/corporate paradigm is dead. And so will we if we can't find an escape from it.
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hippiema1 · Coal Joined: Jul 27, 2007 Posts: 13

zeke · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 07, 2007 Posts: 83

mos6507 · Fission Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 2284

Kunstler is too big on the moral idignation. It puts people off. Heinberg is more of the school marm who is trying to educate, not ridicule, even though he too realizes it's probably too little too late.

pstarr · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 1:31 pm Post subject: Re: Kunstler vs Heinberg

Ayoob · Expert Joined: Jul 15, 2004 Posts: 989

zeke · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 07, 2007 Posts: 83

zeke · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 07, 2007 Posts: 83

Fredrik · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Kunstler vs Heinberg

pstarr · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: Re: Kunstler vs Heinberg

catbox · Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Kunstler vs Heinberg

I've taken bits and pieces from each writer and left a few aside.
Each guy had a part in me ending up here.
They both have something to offer.

At this point of the game, there may not be much more to actually learn from these two....at least by the folks here at PO.com. I am sure it's pretty clear to the gang here at PO what's going on,....but for the rest of the masses, these guys still can be in the job giving that first shove into the 7 stages of PO grief.

catbox
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zeke · Tar Sands Joined: Dec 07, 2007 Posts: 83

dang...couldn't get thewatt.com subscription to "take."

iTunes sees it, and gives a Subscribe button, but clicking that doesn't result in a successful subscription.

Never mind...googled and got this:

http://thewatt.com/podcast.rss

downloading 'casts right now

zeke
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