Hoarding is exactly what the government is doing right now by filling the SPR, and frankly it's the best thing that could happen. It drives prices up. High prices encourage demand destruction. They also finance new well development. The hoarded oil gives us a buffer to fall back on once shortages become more prevalent. High prices are what we need in order to adapt to what's coming, and the sooner they happen, the better.
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4860 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:31 pm Post subject: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
The dems in Congress believe high oil prices are due to "speculators" and not to supply and demand issues. New legislation they have just passed will ban all Americans from trading oil on all overseas exchanges. They think this will end the speculation and return oil prices to normal.
It seems to me this will make things worse. It would have the effect of further limiting the ability of Americans to buy oil, as by law Americans could then only purchase whatever oil was made available by foreign Naitonal Oil Companies directly to American exchanges.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:34 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
Plantagenet wrote:
The dems in Congress believe high oil prices are due to "speculators" and not to supply and demand issues. New legislation they have just passed will ban all Americans from trading oil on all overseas exchanges. They think this will end the speculation and return oil prices to normal.
It seems to me this will make things worse. It would have the effect of further limiting the ability of Americans to buy oil, as by law Americans could then only purchase whatever oil was made available by foreign Naitonal Oil Companies directly to American exchanges.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
smiley wrote:
Reminds me of the gold confiscation act.
Gold is almost the perfect commodity to be driven sky high as a safe haven. We don't need it, in copious amounts as an industrial metal. It can absorb inflationary excess, in a much more civilly responsible way than other commodities, particularly food and oil.
Your comparison, therefore, from a humane perspective, just did a face plant, Smiley.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
Plantagenet wrote:
The dems in Congress believe high oil prices are due to "speculators" and not to supply and demand issues. New legislation they have just passed will ban all Americans from trading oil on all overseas exchanges. They think this will end the speculation and return oil prices to normal.
It seems to me this will make things worse. It would have the effect of further limiting the ability of Americans to buy oil, as by law Americans could then only purchase whatever oil was made available by foreign Naitonal Oil Companies directly to American exchanges.
Joined: Apr 09, 2007 Posts: 4860 Location: Alaska (its much bigger than Texas).
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
mos6507 wrote:
Plantagenet wrote:
The dems in Congress believe high oil prices are due to "speculators" and not to supply and demand issues. New legislation they have just passed will ban all Americans from trading oil on all overseas exchanges. They think this will end the speculation and return oil prices to normal.
It seems to me this will make things worse. It would have the effect of further limiting the ability of Americans to buy oil, as by law Americans could then only purchase whatever oil was made available by foreign Naitonal Oil Companies directly to American exchanges.
They really don't "get" peak oil in the US Congress.
They might as well experiment like this. Over time they will realize what's going on.
Sure. With 40+ years of ill-advised policies already under their belts, what does another 5-10 years of wrong-headed screw-ups matter..... they are bound to do something right eventually.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
They really don't get it do they? I was wondering what Hillary was talking about when she proposed some of the crazy stuff she's thinking about. Fortunately Obama seems a little smarter.
It's bad when they think that getting Americans out of the market would make any difference. They keep blaming it on "speculators". Do they know anything about the market at all?
It's like Saddam Hussein who hung a bunch of food dealers when the price went up. That will teach them! Teach them not to sell oil. _________________ Deep in the mud and slime of things, even there, something sings.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
Ban Americans, will it?
Let's see now...
Set up an operating corporation, through an attorney, in BVI. Have the attorney hold the shares in nominee name. Have the attorney serve as corporate secretary.
Call and consult the attorney from time to time, thus privileging communications.
The corporation then executes various trades.
Of course, this would be morally and ethically wrong; it would also violate the spirit of the law.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
What you have happening now, is the Enronization of oil, on a global scale. Enron was responsible for ramping up the price of electricity, in areas like California, due to a relaxing of oversight. They did this during a drought period, when hydro electrical generation was somewhat restricted. They used any real shortages of generation power, to mask manipulation. They withheld supply, taking plants offline when they didn't have to, etc.... This is all part of cleanly documented history, now. Their actions drove Enron share prices through the roof, and fed the derivatives paper monster.
The majors, together with Opec, are doing the same thing now, on a global scale. If you don't think this is happening now, you are extremely naive.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
One more thing...Free marketeers are enthrall to the idea of letting markets function without outside interferance, and can make several disingenuous arguments to support their case.
Free markets, completely outside of a "greater good" philosophy become more like a high seas where pirates prevail, than the good ship lollipop, skippered by Andrew Carnegie, enriching all those who adopt the "right attitude."
Pretty soon the pirates own, or at least, commandeer all of the food and energy, and to hell with everyone else. They try to maneuver themselves into a position where there are no checks and balances against them. This is what you are seeing now. Government is the only entity large enough to take them on.
But don't take my word for it, just keep believing what you believe until you become committed hare core communists after the shtf. Fundamentalists usually swing from one extreme to the other.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
threadbear wrote:
What you have happening now, is the Enronization of oil, on a global scale. Enron was responsible for ramping up the price of electricity, in areas like California, due to a relaxing of oversight. They did this during a drought period, when hydro electrical generation was somewhat restricted. They used any real shortages of generation power, to mask manipulation. They withheld supply, taking plants offline when they didn't have to, etc.... This is all part of cleanly documented history, now. Their actions drove Enron share prices through the roof, and fed the derivatives paper monster.
The majors, together with Opec, are doing the same thing now, on a global scale. If you don't think this is happening now, you are extremely naive.
How does restricting American purchasing power on a fungible commodity in a global economy accomplish anything? Does it help out the petrodollar recycling by forcing the exporters to go to American Markets? I am a little confused as what this will accomplish. _________________ It's a cold cold world when a man has to pawn his shoes.
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
These suggestions and "reactions" to high oil prices are exactly why I have argued the optimists are wrong - the market doesn't solve anything. People will muck things up and make them worse a long time before the market can ever act.
Let's see the national suggestions so far are:
(1) Eliminate Fed taxes on gas, at least for awhile;
(2) Increase taxes on oil companies blah blah blah;
(3) Don't let Americans trade in oil, yea right.
Sounds like really good suggestions. Nothing pro-active. All stupid.
Notice the American response to everything - bailout the individual. Housing downturn - buy mortgages, increase lending, whatever we do, don't let anyone fail for making bad decisions, the American dream must continue. Consumer spending drop? Let's drop $600 on everyone and allow them to spend some more. Oil prices rise? Let's keep people driving by cutting fuel taxes (used for roads BTW), stop people from trading in oil and tax the oil companies. Nice. I see a pattern.
Joined: Sep 19, 2007 Posts: 916 Location: Land of the Tongva tribe
Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Americans to be banned from overseas oil trading
threadbear wrote:
The majors, together with Opec, are doing the same thing now, on a global scale. If you don't think this is happening now, you are extremely naive.
Hateing on the majors once again. My duty as part of the Big Oil Myth Protection Agency is to post this link to a chart showing how small the majors are compared to OPEC and the NOCs.
joeltrout _________________ ENERGY is the basis of our industrial civilization and sustains our standard of living. It is the foundation stone of our national wealth. A nation starved of energy.....will be a nation of starving people.
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