How then, do we move backwards? How does a society, with most of the people having no clue of future events, move from being dependent on a vast and intertwined network of goods and services produced by the indigenous people of whereever, to a local resource and renewable energy based society, and do so in the timeframe available (20-30 years using the most liberal extimates, 10-20 with resonable estimates, 5-10 with worst case scenarios), all the while prices on everything increasing, world politics getting more militaristic, governments continuously reducing civil liberties, shortages of goods on the market and weather patterns resembling bad Hollywood movies?
Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: Construction and mining machinery needs oil
I think whenever most people talk about alternative energy, they forget that a lot of heavy machinery requires diesel. Here's a video of how wind turbines are built:
It's obvious that a lot of open pit mining needs oil machinery and transporting the ore around most likely needs oil as well. Steel prices are rising quite fast.
Then, people are going to bring up biodiesel. Here's the image:
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: Re: Construction and mining machinery needs oil
In the phosphate open pit mines in Florida, the ore is not unlike sand and is recovered by a big ass drag line, run on electricity, and dropped into a pond. Water cannons are used to churn the stuff into a slurry. The slurry is then pumped to the processing plant several miles away.
I was entirely impressed the first time I saw the operation.
There is still a large demand for diesel and gasoline. Front end loaders, graders, excavators, cranes of all size, back hoes, compressors, welding generators, forklifts, bobcats, trains, trains, trains, and of course getting the few hundred people to work every day.
The drag lines have a bucket that will fit 3 of those Tirex Titan dump trucks side by side. Could scoop up my house with one bite. Electric cables are moved every few days to keep the machine going. Runs on 50k volts. Electricity is produced as a by product of burning sulfur. The heat boils water to steam to run turbines. The exhaust gases are used in making sulphuric acid. Sulphuric acid + phosphate rock + vanadium catalyst=triple phosphate fertilizer. These plants are something to see. I'll be at two of them over the next 6 weeks working on shutdowns. ($$$!!!)
The sulfur is delivered by diesel trains in a molten form and kept molten during the trip. The final product is then shipped out by diesel train. Each car will hold around 200k pounds, 119 cars in a train. Its the most efficient transportation method.
Other types of ore require the big dump trucks. Iron and coal, heavy metals, bauxite, these do not dissolve in water and must be hauled. Besides ores, there are all sorts of things processed in high volume.
Paper and pulp mills bring in a constant supply of timber, hauled by truck from the surrounding region. A soybean plant north of here produces vegetable oil, has a steady stream of trucks hauling in the beans. Concrete plants have lime, stone and sand. These are just the major ingredients. Trucks do much of the hauling of local inputs. Trains do much of the hauling of the finished product. _________________ If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face--for ever."
-George Orwell, 1984
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Construction and mining machinery needs oil
How are the electric cables moved? I'm guessing it needs a mobile crane if the cables are overhead. If on the ground then it needs something like a tractor.
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