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Vee
Tar Sands
Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Southwest New Mexico
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Sideous
Tar Sands
Joined: May 22, 2007
Posts: 29
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 Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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The weakness of this system, as for all electric car concepts, is the batteries. The fact that these people are even trying to use batteries shows poor clarity of thinking. They should probably go back to running internet businesses, where they might actually make some money.
Electric propulsion is already widely used across the world and has been for over a century. Electric trains and trolley buses are the workhorses of public transport systems in cities across the world. There is nothing new about electric propulsion. How many of these systems use batteries? Not a single one. They all rely upon power drawn direct from the grid through an overhead cable or third rail. Until someone has the foresight to invent a car that can do the same thing, electric cars will fail to provide cost effective performance.
Come back in 100 years and most cars will draw power from electrified conduits fitted into slots within the road. Cars working on this principle will be very light (and superfast) since they will require relatively little energy storage capacity and will have infinite range, since the power comes directly from the grid conductively and there is no need to stop and recharge.  |
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JRP3
Heavy Crude
Joined: Oct 23, 2006
Posts: 394
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JRP3
Heavy Crude
Joined: Oct 23, 2006
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| Sideous wrote: |
Come back in 100 years and most cars will draw power from electrified conduits fitted into slots within the road. Cars working on this principle will be very light (and superfast) since they will require relatively little energy storage capacity and will have infinite range, since the power comes directly from the grid conductively and there is no need to stop and recharge. |
And how much would it cost to retrofit the millions and millions of miles of highways to do this, and to keep these strips powered, even when there may be no vehicles on the road for periods of time? They can barely keep the potholes filled around here, no way can we afford to do what you're suggesting.
Small sections for on the fly recharging of battery powered vehicles, maybe. The fact is that battery powered vehicles can work well once you re-think your actual "needed" range.
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Vee
Tar Sands
Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Southwest New Mexico
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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well they were less than half the price of the Tesla Sports car. and if they had kept making them and if the battery situation ever gets sorted out they could have been within reach of the majority. plus we would have had a used car market in them by now. Just a thought. They stopped production in 1999? Stop and start. fits and starts.  |
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idiom
Heavy Crude
Joined: Aug 23, 2004
Posts: 370
Location: New Zealand
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| Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:52 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| Slots or rails are unlikely. Cars using inroad power will use inductive power transmission. |
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yesplease
Fission
Joined: Oct 03, 2006
Posts: 2086
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:36 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| JRP3 wrote: | | Vee wrote: | | I'm not really sure what you are referring to when you say VW type cars? |
Inexpensive cars for the masses. The EV1 and RAV4EV were not inexpensive cars for the masses. |
They were in terms of overall costs, it's just that most won't figure how much they'll save over the life of the vehicle to determine if a larger initial investment is worthwhile.
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| Professor Membrane wrote: | | Not now son! I'm making...TOAST! |
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 3131
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| Vee wrote: |
In fact the EV1 is the only large scale creation in that market I can think of. you mention others? what were they?
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The Toyota Rav4EV was a much more practical vehicle and yet Who Killed the Electric Car glorified the EV1 to the level where it has stolen the spotlight. |
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Vee
Tar Sands
Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Southwest New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:13 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| Well any spot light is better than none at all. and with the price of fuel rising as it is now. the mental landscape has changed quickly and I think will continue to. People will accept these cars when the price of fuel hits 6 dollars a gallon and beyond. You think? |
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Vee
Tar Sands
Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Southwest New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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And one more thing. I notice in posts on this site. Reduced expectations. We need an elementary school class on diminished expectations. I see many people trying to maintain the lifestyle they have grown up knowing.
I think the point of what many of us are seeing as fuel costs go through the roof is the absolute realization that everything has changed for people who can't afford $4. and beyond gasoline. It isn't a matter on maintaining, it is a situation of changing.
For some people even 10 dollars a gallon or more isn't a problem for them. But for others who live on the financial edge. they are already in deep do do.
Changing our ways is the issue. we all know about the costs we are all paying. |
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Future4u
Coal
Joined: May 26, 2008
Posts: 3
Location: Redding , Ca
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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There's a company in New Jersey that has taken old ,
proven technologies along with hydrogen fuel cells and
added a few of their own discoveries to develop an add-on
kit to existing engines .
This unit reformulates the fuel . They have sold several thousand
kits and the average increase in fuel economy is 95% , thus they
guarantee a 50% increase or your money back . Some of the
modifications have obtained 200% improvement .
No infrastructure is required because the hydrogen is produced on board on demand .
That's phase #1 ,
phase #2 is a replacement of the catalytic converter now in use
which burns ( wastes ) the unburnt fuel . The new invention utilizes
this waste carbon to produce and burn energy . They tested it on a
dynomometer on a Chrysler 318 engine , simulating pulling a trailer
with a 50% load up a 30% grade at 3,000 rpms for an hour . Before
modification the engine used 18 pounds of fuel ( 22 MPG ) and after
modification utilized 2 pounds of fuel ( 196 MPG ) .
This technology is awaiting EPA and CARB approvals prior to
release.
BTW , the highly publicized " Oil shortage " may be a huge fraud .
Go to : http://www.reformation.org/energy-non-crisis.html
and watch a speech by Lindsey Williams in a series of tapes .
He sure sounds convincing to me...
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 3131
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| Vee wrote: |
People will accept these cars when the price of fuel hits 6 dollars a gallon and beyond. You think?
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Interest and buying habits are two different things. In order for people to buy electric cars they have to make a paradigm shift. That's why plugins have the best chances since they can be driven the way people are used to. |
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Vee
Tar Sands
Joined: May 25, 2008
Posts: 22
Location: Southwest New Mexico
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| Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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Plugs in's ? there is no free lunch. it still takes energy to charge whatever car is plugged in. You are stuck in the very mind set I was referring to. you seem to think that with a change in the technology everything will go back to what it was in the 1960's..... It's over baby. you can't go back only forward and the future says energy is going to cost more. what is it that you don't understand about high energy costs?
People in the winter cold and heat with electricity already know that electricity costs money. how long before the costs of high energy will be seen on your light bill in the future?
Today it's "I can't cruise the main drag" to I can't afford to keep the lights on? How would your life change with a 40 cent Kilowatt charge? or a 60 cent? think it's out of the question?
Also it should be said that the waste and abuse we have enjoyed in the energy glut we have all enjoyed for soooo long may bring about some much needed change in people life habits. This energy change doesn't have to be a bad thing in the end. it may well save the planet from what has been the norm of use and abuse. Abuse is going to cost NOW rather than the later. that has to be a good thing. already people are cutting back on RV use and all the toys are staying in the garage. a little peace on the lakes and in the forests. It will be interesting to see what happens this summer as people stay home. who knows maybe they will get to know each other?  Vee............... |
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Sideous
Tar Sands
Joined: May 22, 2007
Posts: 29
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| JRP3 wrote: | | Sideous wrote: |
Come back in 100 years and most cars will draw power from electrified conduits fitted into slots within the road. Cars working on this principle will be very light (and superfast) since they will require relatively little energy storage capacity and will have infinite range, since the power comes directly from the grid conductively and there is no need to stop and recharge. |
And how much would it cost to retrofit the millions and millions of miles of highways to do this, and to keep these strips powered, even when there may be no vehicles on the road for periods of time? They can barely keep the potholes filled around here, no way can we afford to do what you're suggesting.
Small sections for on the fly recharging of battery powered vehicles, maybe. The fact is that battery powered vehicles can work well once you re-think your actual "needed" range. |
The same could be said for electrified railways, or the catenary systems that power trams. The fact is that these systems work and they haven't broken the bank. Capital costs will be higher because of the added expense of the electrified strip and transformer stations. But fuel costs will be a lot lower. There is no good reason to believe that these systems will cost the Earth, any more than electric railways.
My guess is that cars will carry batteries or small IC engines for local roads and highways will be electrified. I doubt that smaller roads would be electrified anyhow, as this would create unacceptable risks in pedestrian areas. |
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mos6507
Fusion
Joined: Aug 03, 2007
Posts: 3131
Location: Boston Suburbs
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| Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Tesla Electric Car |
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| Vee wrote: |
you seem to think that with a change in the technology everything will go back to what it was in the 1960's.....
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I never said that. Being able to keep owning a car doesn't mean we'll all still be driving as carefree as we do today, even with plugins.
| Vee wrote: |
how long before the costs of high energy will be seen on your light bill in the future?
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You can generate your own electricity. Few can make their own gas. |
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