Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
MOCKBA floating rate debt based on LIBOR combined with interest rate swaps (IRS) are not terribly complicated. They just swapped fixed rate debt for floating rate debt, and then covered their interest rate gap exposure by buying an IRS. This asset swap lowered their overall cost of borrowing (5.25 to 4.40%) and should have been very straight forward had they just left well enough alone.
But this is government at work. BIC Syndrome - bureaucracy, incompetence and corruption. State or county officials wined and dined by fast talking salesmen, and the ever present boys from the backroom, pushing these public clerks into deals they do not fully understand, and then collecting outsized fees along with the kickbacks for the good ol' boys in the backroom. They probably felt very flattered that Wall Street were paying so much attention to them? JPM's name pops up again and again in these deals gone sour.
However, as the County bypassed the competitive bid system to do bilateral deals they violated probably rule number one of any competent purchasing manager or State Treasurer, and that is to establish a market and choose the best price. Usually the best of three quotes at least. This is just incompetence on the part of local authorities.
So a la Orange County the Prosecutor or whoever will simply try to prove that these Wall Street firms sold complicated products to end users that did not fully understand them. It is really a bullshit defense. The products themselves are very straight forward, and of course had they worked the way they were supposed to the County would have reaped the benefit of paying lower interest costs. Never the less as there has been fraud committed no doubt the prosecution will have an easier time pointing to the smoking gun of overpaying for those swaps and the allegation of collusion amoung firms.
Unlike marked to model myth CDOs and CLOs that are hard to value in the absence of secondary market trading these simple FRAs and IRSs are easy enough to accurately value with one caveat. They are based on LIBOR (or sometimes FED funds) and banks have been systematically under-reporting LIBOR lately as they are rue to admit how much they themselves have to pay for interbank loans. Good if you're paying floating rates and receiving fixed payments. Bad if you're on the otherside and paying fixed while receiving floating rates.
But where these states and counties really got screwed is when the public auctions failed and no one stepped in as buyer of last resort. I cannot really blame the local authorities for that as it is a small probability event and hard to plan against versus the immediate need of having to secure low-cost financing for projects. Local authorities are always under pressure to do more with less. However, this illustrates how careful they should have been when negotiating these contracts. Now the taxpayer is on the hook and money going out to settle these deals is money not available to pay other expenses. The taxpayer always loses from BIC Syndrome, so I am at a loss why so many clamour for more government. _________________ The organized state is a wonderful invention whereby everyone can live at someone else's expense.
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Heineken wrote:
Add that one to the list of doom factors!
could vanish is a little too euphemistic.
Pensions of Millions are in the process of vanishing ?
or it's just a huge big growing un-funded liability, and the probability of pension payout is becoming a statistical term that i don't yet know ("Big Maybe ?"), as opposed to what a pension once was, certainty.
my stepfather is a Ford retiree. i think he will just squeak through with benefits intact.
i think many of the corp's. involved will make some kind of genuflection to an attempted pay-out. a band-aid and a packet of ketchup, for health care and food. _________________ http://www.LASIKdecision.com/ ~ Health Warning about LASIK Eye Surgery
Joined: Aug 03, 2006 Posts: 4073 Location: Graceland
Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
pedalling_faster wrote:
Heineken wrote:
Add that one to the list of doom factors!
could vanish is a little too euphemistic.
Pensions of Millions are in the process of vanishing ?
or it's just a huge big growing un-funded liability, and the probability of pension payout is becoming a statistical term that i don't yet know ("Big Maybe ?"), as opposed to what a pension once was, certainty.
my stepfather is a Ford retiree. i think he will just squeak through with benefits intact.
i think many of the corp's. involved will make some kind of genuflection to an attempted pay-out. a band-aid and a packet of ketchup, for health care and food.
Private sector defined benefit pension plans are very safe. All of the risk is on the employer and the benefits are insured by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, which monitors private pension trust funding levels closely.
About the only thing that can be lost in a private defined benefit pension plan is some of the payment options. For example, under certain underfunding scenarios the lump sum option can be eliminated, but the actuarially equivalent annuity options are still available.
The worlds of public pension plans, private defined benefit plans, and private defined contribution plans (such as 401(k) plans) are all quite different.
Company provided retiree medical benefits can, in most cases, be eliminated at any time. No one should assume those benefits won't be cut at some point. _________________
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 3969 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Pensions of Millions Could Vanish
Quote:
Private sector defined benefit pension plans are very safe. All of the risk is on the employer and the benefits are insured by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation, which monitors private pension trust funding levels closely.
Public pension plans are backed by the taxpayer. The Governor must sign into law any changes made with public plans. These are safer than private pension plans. With private plans, they go belly up and ppl get only a fraction of their benefits.
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