Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1486 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:10 pm Post subject: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
President Hugo Chavez said Sunday on his radio talk show that neighbouring Colombia is trying to provoke Venezuela into a war so as to draw in and "justify" an armed intervention by the United States.
"The government of Colombia is capable of provoking a war with Venezuela to justify a US intervention in Venezuela," Chavez said on his weekly program "Alo Presidente."
He warned Colombian President Alvaro Uribe: "think closely about how far you can go, and I publicly urge you a moment of reflection."
"I issue an alert to the continent, the Venezuelan people, the armed forces over the Colombian government's intention to provoke a war against us," Chavez said.
"This has been planned and (the war) would come by way of the (western) states of Zulia and Tachira. They've been playing for time and making their plans.
"It would be a war in which the paramilitaries would play a role of penetration and intelligence," Chavez said, allegedly referring to Colombia's right-wing paramilitary forces.
link _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
Cid_Yama wrote:
President Hugo Chavez said Sunday on his radio talk show that neighbouring Colombia is trying to provoke Venezuela into a war so as to draw in and "justify" an armed intervention by the United States.
"The government of Colombia is capable of provoking a war with Venezuela to justify a US intervention in Venezuela," Chavez said on his weekly program "Alo Presidente."
He warned Colombian President Alvaro Uribe: "think closely about how far you can go, and I publicly urge you a moment of reflection."
"I issue an alert to the continent, the Venezuelan people, the armed forces over the Colombian government's intention to provoke a war against us," Chavez said.
"This has been planned and (the war) would come by way of the (western) states of Zulia and Tachira. They've been playing for time and making their plans.
"It would be a war in which the paramilitaries would play a role of penetration and intelligence," Chavez said, allegedly referring to Colombia's right-wing paramilitary forces.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1486 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
“I advise those individuals who want to break up Venezuela to think it through very well. We won’t tolerate a political segmentation of our country,” he said, assuring that any such attempts would be met with force.
“It would be war, there would be no other alternative. Venezuela is one country, and it cannot be divided,” he said.
President Chavez referred to the autonomy movement in Zulia as an “imperial plan” designed and supported by the United States to take control of strategic areas of the country where the oil resources are located. He outlined on a map the areas that the opposition would supposedly be trying to take over as a part of this plan, including the states of Zulia, Tachira, Merida, Barinas, and Apure.
“After the elections in November of this year, the coup-mongering opposition wants to declare autonomy in these regions, which is part of the imperial plan,” he warned.
Joined: Sep 03, 2007 Posts: 620 Location: Sunny Virginia, USA
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
Cid_Yama wrote:
“I advise those individuals who want to break up Venezuela to think it through very well. We won’t tolerate a political segmentation of our country,” he said, assuring that any such attempts would be met with force.
“It would be war, there would be no other alternative. Venezuela is one country, and it cannot be divided,” he said.
President Chavez referred to the autonomy movement in Zulia as an “imperial plan” designed and supported by the United States to take control of strategic areas of the country where the oil resources are located. He outlined on a map the areas that the opposition would supposedly be trying to take over as a part of this plan, including the states of Zulia, Tachira, Merida, Barinas, and Apure.
“After the elections in November of this year, the coup-mongering opposition wants to declare autonomy in these regions, which is part of the imperial plan,” he warned.
If you mean a pattern of crazy people taking control of a country and taking advantage of situations to beat the drums of war (ie Bush Administration, Chavez, to name a couple). Spot on.
If you mean a pattern showing that Chavez is a power drunk loon who can get away with any outrageous claim because the one country that could have stood up to him on a moral plane has no standing because "nobody can trust America" because, quite literally, nobody can trust America. Spot on.
If you mean a pattern of tensions rising throughout the world because everyone is starting to realize that oil, though plentyful, is getting harder to find, extract, and produce. Spot on. _________________ When somebody makes a statement you don't understand, don't tell him he's crazy. Ask him what he means. -- Otto Harkaman, Space Viking
Joined: Sep 11, 2007 Posts: 341 Location: In freefall speed right down to the claws of the devil
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
Cid_Yama wrote:
President Hugo Chavez said Sunday on his radio talk show that neighbouring Colombia is trying to provoke Venezuela into a war so as to draw in and "justify" an armed intervention by the United States.
"The government of Colombia is capable of provoking a war with Venezuela to justify a US intervention in Venezuela," Chavez said on his weekly program "Alo Presidente."
He warned Colombian President Alvaro Uribe: "think closely about how far you can go, and I publicly urge you a moment of reflection."
"I issue an alert to the continent, the Venezuelan people, the armed forces over the Colombian government's intention to provoke a war against us," Chavez said.
"This has been planned and (the war) would come by way of the (western) states of Zulia and Tachira. They've been playing for time and making their plans.
"It would be a war in which the paramilitaries would play a role of penetration and intelligence," Chavez said, allegedly referring to Colombia's right-wing paramilitary forces.
Mind not. That´s just his way of fleeing yet frontbound, because, the Interpol´s report, on the not so publisized computer, seized to the colombian guerrillero Reyes, in Ecuador, is due by the 15th of this month and his internal pressure level is starting to make ´em act up from it.
Quote:
El Pais added that other possible arms sources for FARC, particularly ground-to-air missiles, were mentioned in computer messages, including contacts with "Australian traffickers".
The left-of-centre newspaper reported last December that Venezuela had become a safe haven for FARC, harbouring several rebel camps on its territory. Venezuela has denied this.
The Wall Street Journal reported Friday that US intelligence officials believe that seized computer files showing strong ties between Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez and Colombian rebels are authentic.
The files describe meetings between guerrilla commanders and top Venezuelan officials including Chavez himself, the newspaper said, based on its review of more than 100 documents allegedly seized from Reyes' computer.
Joined: May 27, 2007 Posts: 1486 Location: The Post Peak Oil Historian
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
Actually I was talking about the attempted Kosovoization of resource rich areas of countries, i.e. Bolivia. _________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - George Orwell
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
Quote:
Wouldn't be at all surprised. Uribe needs his ass kicked, right up around his ears, is my guess.
This is a comment that shows some ignorance about the true nature of politics in northern Latin America and what is actually happening on the ground. Uribe has made vast strides in improving the lives of all Colombians. I have spent a lot of time in and out of Colombia since the late nineties. It used to be a nightmare, wide spread violence, kidnappings, gun fire in the streets of Bogota. There really was no safe haven, I know many Colombians who left to seek out better lives in North America. Since Uribe took power the security situation has improved vastly. The military numbers have increased and they have been disseminated around the country to various staging areas. The FARC and ELN have been pushed further and further to remoter spots of Colombia. The parmilitaries have similarily been pushed to eastern most Colombia. Bogota is now a very safe place, you feel comfortable walking around this beautiful city without fear of being shot or kidnapped. Cartegna is again becoming a popular tourist resort. The number of kidnappings and violent crimes continue to decrease from an all time high in 2002. If you ask the average Colombian in any of the cities they will tell you they much prefer the situation now than to five years ago. There was a recent march in Bogota attended by millions of people in a number of cities throughout Colombia to protest the activities of FARC.
Where North Americans seem to get confused it they have a view that FARC is some sort of freedom fighting coalition. It might have started out that way but soon became nothing more than bands of organized criminals. They finance their operations through the sale of illegal cocaine and kidnapping of foreigners. They extort oil companies to keep pipelines safe, they extort villagers to provide their children as new soldiers for the FARC forces (penalty of death if they don't) and to grow coca for them. The paramilitaries also started out with good intentions, the idea being to provide security for villagers in the Casamance area from FARC. It wasn't long before they saw the profits that could be had from coca growing and became involved as well. In eastern Colombia there is a current battle between paramilitaries, FARC and ELN for control over the drug trade, the Colombian military continues to fight all three.
Contrary to what Chavez infers the Colombian government does not support the paramilitaries, indeed they are currently waging a small war with them in eastern Colombia. The aledged collusion between several governors and local paramilitary groups speaks to criminal activity that is not unusual in most countries including the US (politicians can often be bought with drugas pesos). If Chavez captured some evidence of paramilitaries in western Venzuela it is simply because the border is porous and this is the best place for the paramilitaries to escape the Colombian army. Why in God's name would Uribe want to go to war with Venezuela, he has enough issues trying to rid his country of criminal elements. The Venezuelan border remains the main line of traffic for FARC cocaine coming out of Colombia and bound for the US and elsewhere. It is well known that the centre of the South American cocaine export business is now Venezuela...do you believe that Chavez doesn't have a piece of that?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1127 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Attempts to Divide Venezuela Will Be Cause For War
jlw61 wrote:
If you mean a pattern showing that Chavez is a power drunk loon who can get away with any outrageous claim because the one country that could have stood up to him on a moral plane has no standing because "nobody can trust America" because, quite literally, nobody can trust America. Spot on.
Oh, yes, it's patently outrageous to imagine the United States would ever interfere politically or militarily in affairs of another sovereign country, particularly in Latin America. Honestly, where does Chavez get these ideas? Colombia's not speaking to Venezuela right now so they couldn't have told him about how Panama was levered away from them largely so the Canal could be built and owned and operated by US interests for most of a century...
The man MUST be a loon for not trusting the US, when, as you say, you can't trust the US.
I mean, where does Chavez get the idea that the United States would just pack up its military, sail across the sea, and invade and eviscerate some distant, peaceful, foreign land that never attacked the US and never could, just because that country happened to be awash in oil? I can't imagine where he gets this stuff. He simply has to be smoking some of whatever Noriega left lying around after his days peddling drugs to fund Iran-Contra for the Reagan Administration. Why won't this man stop picking on the good ol' USA, the only real peace-loving, democratic, play-by-the-rules country in the history of the universe? You know, it's just sad.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
rockdoc123 wrote:
Quote:
Wouldn't be at all surprised. Uribe needs his ass kicked, right up around his ears, is my guess.
This is a comment that shows some ignorance about the true nature of politics in northern Latin America and what is actually happening on the ground. Uribe has made vast strides in improving the lives of all Colombians. I have spent a lot of time in and out of Colombia since the late nineties. It used to be a nightmare, wide spread violence, kidnappings, gun fire in the streets of Bogota. There really was no safe haven, I know many Colombians who left to seek out better lives in North America. Since Uribe took power the security situation has improved vastly. The military numbers have increased and they have been disseminated around the country to various staging areas. The FARC and ELN have been pushed further and further to remoter spots of Colombia. The parmilitaries have similarily been pushed to eastern most Colombia. Bogota is now a very safe place, you feel comfortable walking around this beautiful city without fear of being shot or kidnapped. Cartegna is again becoming a popular tourist resort. The number of kidnappings and violent crimes continue to decrease from an all time high in 2002. If you ask the average Colombian in any of the cities they will tell you they much prefer the situation now than to five years ago. There was a recent march in Bogota attended by millions of people in a number of cities throughout Colombia to protest the activities of FARC.
Where North Americans seem to get confused it they have a view that FARC is some sort of freedom fighting coalition. It might have started out that way but soon became nothing more than bands of organized criminals. They finance their operations through the sale of illegal cocaine and kidnapping of foreigners. They extort oil companies to keep pipelines safe, they extort villagers to provide their children as new soldiers for the FARC forces (penalty of death if they don't) and to grow coca for them. The paramilitaries also started out with good intentions, the idea being to provide security for villagers in the Casamance area from FARC. It wasn't long before they saw the profits that could be had from coca growing and became involved as well. In eastern Colombia there is a current battle between paramilitaries, FARC and ELN for control over the drug trade, the Colombian military continues to fight all three.
Contrary to what Chavez infers the Colombian government does not support the paramilitaries, indeed they are currently waging a small war with them in eastern Colombia. The aledged collusion between several governors and local paramilitary groups speaks to criminal activity that is not unusual in most countries including the US (politicians can often be bought with drugas pesos). If Chavez captured some evidence of paramilitaries in western Venzuela it is simply because the border is porous and this is the best place for the paramilitaries to escape the Colombian army. Why in God's name would Uribe want to go to war with Venezuela, he has enough issues trying to rid his country of criminal elements. The Venezuelan border remains the main line of traffic for FARC cocaine coming out of Colombia and bound for the US and elsewhere. It is well known that the centre of the South American cocaine export business is now Venezuela...do you believe that Chavez doesn't have a piece of that?
Rock Doc, You provide a very rosy picture of Columbia. How do you know that the purpose of the crackdown on Farc, wasn't to bring dope production and distribution, under control of fewer players, players that are allied with govt, through back channels and other circuitous routes? I totally agree with your description of many of the militias, though. Still think Uribe needs his ass kicked by Chavez. Chavez doesn't need dope action. He has tremendous support and oil wealth. This is a deflection of blame away from the real locus of control in the dope trade, the govt of Uribe.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1127 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
threadbear wrote:
Chavez doesn't need dope action. He has tremendous support and oil wealth. This is a deflection of blame away from the real locus of control in the dope trade, the govt of Uribe.
Yeah, this is a good point. When he's got the kind of money and control he has coming from a 100% legal source that everyone on earth is after, and the prestige of standing up to the West on behalf of the dispossessed of the world, why would have voluntarily risk making himself an international pariah instead by getting involved in drug running? Compared to oil, that's penny-ante.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
The text critical of the present president of the country that begins with C, and his ties with drug lords, isn't getting through. I removed all of the links. It's just text and it's not getting through. Curious.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
Under U, the dark side of C: NY L Journal
..... Escob** and U Sierra had become good friends after the latter had been involved in 'fund raising' for a project known as 'Med without slums' — most likely another one of Escob's countless scams to launder his huge empire's d money.
....U**** entered politics at the age of 26 when he was elected mayor of Me******, in 1982 — a payback for his father helping finance the campaign of BB*******, President of Colombia from 1982 to 1986. Sacked after three months for what Tom F*** writing in New Internationalist, d ties to *** U*** then became Director of Civil Aviation and 'issued pilots' licences to Pablo Escob** fleet of light aircraft flying cocaine to Florida. ' Fe***** goes on to report that:
Whether the current crisis will see U**** resign or call new elections is unclear, but if, *tard American pres* is remotely serious about the 'Wa* on *error' and the 'Wa* on *rugs,' then he could start by dealing with his amigo in Bog***
*arc* News--Award winning site, exposed the *Slimes, bogus reporting on right wing coup against Cha*** a few years back. FORCED editors to retract.
On U****:
By “efforts,” U***referred to his administration’s public relations campaign to improve Colombia’s deserved reputation as the hemisphere’s worst **user of *uman rights, particularly as they apply to workers and onions. Senator Barack Obama, on Wednesday, had cited “the violins against onions in Col*****,as his primary reason for opposing a proposed US-Colombia “*tree toad” agreement.
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: Chavez says Colombia seeks war with Venezuela
FYI - Foreign characters, esp. those with pronunciation marks (tildes, for instance), are usually the culprits for posts not going through. _________________ "It's called the American Dream because you'd have to be asleep to believe it."
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