Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12024 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
mos6507 wrote:
The reason you and everyone else's genes have survived through the aeons to this day owes itself to some morally questionable behavior somewhere in your family tree. They don't call it survival of the fittest for nothing.
Or because they engaged in mutually supportive behavior and thus were enabled to reach breeding age and raise their own offspring to adulthood. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
Quote:
If you want to say the sins of the father should pass to the son... The reason you and everyone else's genes have survived through the aeons to this day owes itself to some morally questionable behavior somewhere in your family tree. They don't call it survival of the fittest for nothing.
Maybe, maybe not. It seems like such a crap shoot. Inherited traits are quite different from inherited bank rolls, though.
As for the sins passing on, I would say, in some cases they do. At least, insofar as the offspring adopt the beliefs/practices of evil ancestors.
The royals are a pretty good example.
Beyond that, speaking of eugenics, if the royals and the "elites" are the fittest the human race really is screwed. They aren't exactly the prettiest or the brightest cast of characters.
Seriously, take the elite's money and make them work for their survival. How many (aside from the self-made) could do it?
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
mos6507 wrote:
charliebrownout wrote:
Quote:
Pfft. They made money the old fashioned way. They inherited it.
Yep. Too bad the rest of us suckers didn't have the good taste to be born to wealthier folks. Shame on us
Everything's relative. You're a wealthy elite compared to some starving ethiopian.
Yes, no argument there. We should share with each other willingly. I've participated in groups over the years which aim to give to food banks and the hungry. It is a pitiful drop in the bucket, though.
I wish I had an answer. I love kids. I love my own and other people's. It hurts to think of the innocents starving and suffering just because people haven't figured out a way to share this earth with other people as well as other living things.
Vulture capitalists are a special kind of evil. They remind me of something said on the Daily Show the other night about Presidents and their "spiritual advisors"....
They need spiritual advisors because they transgress against God in ways we can't even imagine.
It was said with regard to presidents, but I think it applies to these "vultures" quite well.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3140 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
charliebrownout wrote:
Yes, no argument there. We should share with each other willingly. I've participated in groups over the years which aim to give to food banks and the hungry. It is a pitiful drop in the bucket, though.
I wish I had an answer. I love kids. I love my own and other people's. It hurts to think of the innocents starving and suffering just because people haven't figured out a way to share this earth with other people as well as other living things.
Morality is a zero sum game if you follow every act you make (or don't make) to its reverberations across all time and space. Everyone's a victim and a victimizer to some degree. You have to know where to draw the line as far as beating yourself up or beating other people up over what they do.
It's kind of like the microscope that Al Gore gets put under for his environmentalism. Everyone wants to measure every atom of CO2 that can be traced back to him. He's not allowed to be human.
Last edited by mos6507 on Mon May 12, 2008 3:04 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
Ludi wrote:
mos6507 wrote:
The reason you and everyone else's genes have survived through the aeons to this day owes itself to some morally questionable behavior somewhere in your family tree. They don't call it survival of the fittest for nothing.
Or because they engaged in mutually supportive behavior and thus were enabled to reach breeding age and raise their own offspring to adulthood.
Tell them, Ludi! The good old "Survival of the fittest" bullcrap. Poorly understood in natural systems, and a rationalization for criminal, self interested behaviour, in human social systems.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3140 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
threadbear wrote:
Tell them, Ludi! The good old "Survival of the fittest" bullcrap. Poorly understood in natural systems, and a rationalization for criminal, self interested behaviour, in human social systems.
I'm not trying to push a Gordon Gecko anti-morality. I'm just saying if everyone took a closer look at their lives they'd realize they aren't as guiltless as they seem. Ever won a job over someone else? Maybe that guy was in financial straights, and jumped off a bridge because he couldn't support his family.
In my case, I'm in an influential position of interviewing potential hires. So I've been instrumental in hiring two people, and NOT hiring a bunch of others. Was it my moral responsibility to find a way to employ these people even if I thought they weren't qualified? I was an "elite" to them.
Despite the welfare state, at some basic level everyone has to sink or swim and compete with eachother. It doesn't have to be with sticks and stones. Your heart can bleed all you want but you just can't avoid it.
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
Quote:
Morality is a zero sum game if you follow every act you make (or don't make) to its reverberations across all time and space. Everyone's a victim and a victimizer to some degree. You have to know where to draw the line as far as beating yourself up or beating other people up over what they do.
It's kind of like the microscope that Al Gore gets put under for his environmentalism. Everyone wants to measure every atom of CO2 that can be traced back to him. He's not allowed to be human.
If by zero sum game, you mean entirely pointless, I disagree. I don't think the possibility we are causing trouble unknowingly gives us a free card to say "Fark it" and do whatever we want. It just means absolutely moral behavior is impossible to reach, but it doesn't preclude moral behavior alltogether.
That would be akin to a doctor walking away from his job saying "Fark it, they're all gonna die anyway".
I suppose that's an okay answer if you're clinically depressed and a bit of a nihilist, but it isn't really the best option out there.
Regarding Gore, well, he's just a hypocrite. "Do as I say, not as I do" is a hypocritical statement. It really doesn't matter how you slice it.
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
Quote:
I'm not trying to push a Gordon Gecko anti-morality. I'm just saying if everyone took a closer look at their lives they'd realize they aren't as guiltless as they seem. Ever won a job over someone else? Maybe that guy was in financial straights, and jumped off a bridge because he couldn't support his family.
In my case, I'm in an influential position of interviewing potential hires. So I've been instrumental in hiring two people, and NOT hiring a bunch of others. Was it my moral responsibility to find a way to employ these people even if I thought they weren't qualified? I was an "elite" to them.
Despite the welfare state, at some basic level everyone has to sink or swim and compete with eachother. It doesn't have to be with sticks and stones. Your heart can bleed all you want but you just can't avoid it.
Can you absolutely avoid it? No. Should you avoid it whenever possible? Yes.
There is a big difference between intentionally causing harm and accidentally causing harm--even if the end result appears similar at times.
Joined: Dec 27, 2004 Posts: 12024 Location: zombie horde wonderland
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
I personally proclaim myself a hypocrite!
<<<<<<still uses more resources than necessary to sustain life. _________________ "...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow..." - jboogy
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
charliebrownout wrote:
I know, but there is just something about Mr. More-money-than-God talking about it as though deeply worried. If it were to happen, you know he'd be off in some ivory tower, surrounded by land and well-fed body guards.
Joined: Sep 24, 2007 Posts: 2584 Location: third from the sun
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: Re: After You, Sir....
Jack wrote:
Yes, well fed guards who would be entirely willing to do whatever was necessary to protect their client.
Of course well-supplied ivory towers would be prime targets for looting by desperate people. It's happened before during the fall of the Roman Empire. Guards didn't help much, often they figure out that they'd be better killing their master and sharing the loot.
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