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Clouseau2
Heavy Crude
Joined: Oct 18, 2004
Posts: 266
Location: San Francisco, CA
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 Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| heroineworshipper wrote: | | Fighting for oil is a basic necessity. Every candidate would do the same, whether or not they lie about it. |
No it's not. If the same scale of resources wasted on Iraq were applied towards beefing up our electric grid, adding tons of renewables and massively subsidizing electric cars, we could actually reduce our dependence on oil. |
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joe1347
Heavy Crude
Joined: Sep 05, 2005
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| Clouseau2 wrote: | | heroineworshipper wrote: | | Fighting for oil is a basic necessity. Every candidate would do the same, whether or not they lie about it. |
No it's not. If the same scale of resources wasted on Iraq were applied towards beefing up our electric grid, adding tons of renewables and massively subsidizing electric cars, we could actually reduce our dependence on oil. |
Yep. The Iraq was has cost at least $1 Trillion and likely will run closer to $3 Trillion (or more). I challenge anyone to present an economic argument that proves (even a little) that the Iraq war provided a net benefit in terms of energy security.
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"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." Homer Simpson |
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Armageddon
Fission
Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: St.Louis, Mo
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:02 pm Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| joe1347 wrote: | | Clouseau2 wrote: | | heroineworshipper wrote: | | Fighting for oil is a basic necessity. Every candidate would do the same, whether or not they lie about it. |
No it's not. If the same scale of resources wasted on Iraq were applied towards beefing up our electric grid, adding tons of renewables and massively subsidizing electric cars, we could actually reduce our dependence on oil. |
Yep. The Iraq was has cost at least $1 Trillion and likely will run closer to $3 Trillion (or more). I challenge anyone to present an economic argument that proves (even a little) that the Iraq war provided a net benefit in terms of energy security. |
3 trillion of worthless paper money < Iraq's oil and permanent military bases in the heart of middle eastern's oil |
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Roy
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: 714
Location: Western North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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I love the way everyone talks about the cost of Iraq, and throws around the words "trillions of dollars".
Here's a little factoid for you.
$1 million = a stack of $1000 bills, 4 inches tall
$1 billion = a stack of $1000 bills, about 369 feet tall
$1 trillion = a stack of $1000 bills, 67.9 MILES tall
think about that...
A trillion here, a trillion there... No biggie, the Fed will just print more!!
McIsrael, McAmnesty, McCainiac -- Fark no matter which one of the CFR candidates gets elected. |
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Armageddon
Fission
Joined: Apr 13, 2005
Posts: 2892
Location: St.Louis, Mo
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| Roy wrote: | I love the way everyone talks about the cost of Iraq, and throws around the words "trillions of dollars".
Here's a little factoid for you.
$1 million = a stack of $1000 bills, 4 inches tall
$1 billion = a stack of $1000 bills, about 369 feet tall
$1 trillion = a stack of $1000 bills, 67.9 MILES tall
think about that...
A trillion here, a trillion there... No biggie, the Fed will just print more!!
McIsrael, McAmnesty, McCainiac -- Fark no matter which one of the CFR candidates gets elected. |
Are you sure it isn't $100.00 bills ? |
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IgnoranceIsBliss
Tar Sands
Joined: Apr 23, 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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I read recently that McCain went back to "clarify" his remarks as being about the FIRST gulf war, not the present Iraq war. (yeah, whatever!)
He has to do this 'damage control' frequently after various comments.
I agree that the trillions of borrowed money that we are using to fund Iraq would have been much better spent here at home on our infrastructure, energy, etc. That's why I am leaning towards Obama. At least he seems to prefer reckless spending here at home rather than overseas. |
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hironegro
Heavy Crude
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 270
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| great job crap for brain baby boomer politican!! |
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jasonraymondson
Village Idiot
Joined: Jul 04, 2007
Posts: 1846
Location: via corinas inundum
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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What effect would turning the middleast into a big glass bowl have on the price of gas?
Just one of many questions I have heard in the last few days. |
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Denny
Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jul 10, 2004
Posts: 1527
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| jasonraymondson wrote: | | What effect would turning the middleast into a big glass bowl have on the price of gas? |
Well, we all know that answer.
I often wonder if the end objective of all the middle East military adventures is to destabilize things so much that crude's upward spiral accelerates so much that the big shots have windfall profits from their energy stock holdings and commodity trading.
Take Iraq for instance. So many of the public at large believed that the invasion would bring stability and open up Iraq's oil fields, just like turning a big valve. Wow, are they disappointed! But, I wonder how many of Bush's more secretive, and wealthy, supporters are elated with this chaotic turn of events. |
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Kristen
Heavy Crude
Joined: Jul 17, 2006
Posts: 239
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| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:54 pm Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| Well of course it was about oil and all of the leaders in other countries are also aware of it. I mean consider all of the war crimes we've been committing. Hell we've been using cluster bombs! I have yet to see the UN or anyone else interfere. If it wasn't us it would be someone else. |
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Cloud9
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jul 26, 2006
Posts: 955
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:51 am Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| It will be someone else. The moment we leave, the Chinese will step in with both feet. We are in the end game for oil. Wilson Roosevelt and Johnson promised to keep us out of war. Obama will not be the first nor the last Dem to promise peace and hand us a sword. |
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Roy
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Jun 18, 2004
Posts: 714
Location: Western North Carolina
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:05 am Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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I am sure it is $1000 bills.
The thickness of a Federal Reserve Note is .0043 inches.
One link showing that measurement
So 1000 copies of a $1000 note would be 4.3 inches thick and would be worth $1,000,000. |
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3aidlillahi
Intermediate Crude
Joined: Mar 25, 2008
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: Re: Sen. McCain reluctantly tells the truth about the Iraq W |
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| Cloud9 wrote: | | It will be someone else. The moment we leave, the Chinese will step in with both feet. We are in the end game for oil. Wilson Roosevelt and Johnson promised to keep us out of war. Obama will not be the first nor the last Dem to promise peace and hand us a sword. |
True. He's already positioning himself to keep US troops in there indefinitely when he talks about the need to counter any bases that AQ sets up in Iraq. The convenient thing is that they often label anybody as AQ so even with Obama, he'd have a "good" excuse (to him and the American people) to stay in Iraq.
It's hard to say that Roosevelt was talking peace but handing us a sword (but I'll agree at least on Johnson - I know little about WWI  ). After you've lost a large portion of your fleet and 2 000+ killed and more wounded, it's really hard to stay out of war. It's hard to blame him for that. Now you could blame him for inciting war by cutting off economic ties with Japan (oil, etc), but I don't think we should divert this thread for that possibility.
| Quote: | 3 trillion of worthless paper money < Iraq's oil and permanent military bases in the heart of middle eastern's oil
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Those $3 trillion are worthless largely because of the war. Had we not borrowed to spend that money overseas, then our dollar would have been stronger, which would have meant a stronger economy. We wouldn't have higher food, energy, commodity, etc prices (well, at least not sooo much for energy and food).
For $3 trillion, we could have easily gotten ourselves on pace for a renewable energy economy so that we won't crash and burn after the ME oil runs out. In the long-term (we're all dead but) we would have saved a great deal of money and had much less death and destruction on our hands.
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Riches are not from abundance of worldly goods, but from a contented mind. |
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