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vampyregirl
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Schadenfreude
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vampyregirl
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 Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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| Lets just say Cellulose ethanol ok. And since you are a drunk i guess you would know about there dreams. |
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pstarr
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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Hey Schadenfreude don't correct GothGirl. She's an expert 
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Schadenfreude
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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| vampyregirl wrote: | | Lets just say Cellulose ethanol ok. And since you are a drunk i guess you would know about there dreams. |
It's "their" , not "there"
T-H-E-I-R, their!!
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pstarr
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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If I said this once I said this a hundred times here at PO.
Cellulosic ethanol has a zero energy return. That is, it takes more energy to convert a given quantity of woody material into liquid fuel then is contained in that fuel. That's because lignocellulose bonds are extremely tight and break only under hydrolisis and great heat, pressure, and acidic conditions created with much petroleum and electricity.
Many well-publicized schemes to profit from cellulose depend on unproven unlikely technologies such as bioengineered enzymes and anaerobic bacterium that mimic the cow's rumen. Even if such lifeforms could be commercially developed it is unlikely that the fermenting environment could be maintained except at great costs in energy and money.
It's unlikely that such schemes would be able to compete for the cellulose because it is already a valuable material that plays many roles in agriculture and industry. A certain amount of the woody material has to be returned to farm fields and timberlands to maintain soil health (otherwise known as tilth.) The remaining stuff is actually the valuable feedstock for paper pulp and has increasingly become the mainstay of the wood products industry as oriented strand board and various resinated composite products.
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap |
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vampyregirl
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 2:16 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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Wrong Pstarr. Check out www.iogen.ca to learn about enzyme technology.
www.choren.com/en to learn about BTL and its coming commercial production. |
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Cashmere
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Joined: Mar 27, 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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VampeyGirl - fancy webpages can't fuel a car.
Demos and samples are worthless.
Like all other technology that's predicted or theoretical, I'll believe it when I see it.
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It's 11:59
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OPEC sec. gen. Abdullah al-Badri, June 10, '08: "We are panicking too much."
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If you're not a Doomer, then you don't understand the problem.
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Part of the problem is believing that there is a "solution" |
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Windmills
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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| Why can't you make your own arguments instead of tossing links at people like holy water in a horror movie? Take the time to distill some substance from your sources and present it, if you're able, instead of just blindly swallowing the pitches of companies that are aimed at duping investors. It you took the time to think a little more deeply, you might realize it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. |
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pstarr
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:16 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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| Windmills wrote: | | Why can't you make your own arguments instead of tossing links at people like holy water in a horror movie? Take the time to distill some substance from your sources and present it, if you're able, instead of just blindly swallowing the pitches of companies that are aimed at duping investors. It you took the time to think a little more deeply, you might realize it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors. |
That's good  Holy water in a horror movie. There seems to be some psychological truth to that. Almost as if these stories reassure the techtopian that everything will be alright in the future, that the PO boogyman can be dispelled with a spell.
But makes the point very well. GothGirl you make bad arguments, believing that authority (usually press releases she regularly posts) constitute evidence. Nothing could be further from the truth. Often times 'authority' is biased, cherry-picked, and has an agenda.
I consider news stories about technical subjects to be company press releases in disguise until I seem some evidence of either peer-review in a professional journal or commercial viability--that is production in an open market.
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap |
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Ludi
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:20 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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Cel - lust -ic
Could be sinful! 
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pstarr
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Location: Behind the Redwood Curtain
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 10:38 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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| Ludi wrote: | Cel - lust -ic
Could be sinful! |
Sell-You-Lust-yecch
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ree rah rip ram. sunofabitch godamn. hidey didey christ almighty. rah rah crap |
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Cashmere
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Joined: Mar 27, 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:43 am Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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Vamprey Girl is an interesting poster - I'll give her that.
It's like you're sitting there minding your own business, then WHAM!
By runs Vamprey Girl, having just smacked you upside your head with a link to why fluoride is making your nuts fall off.
_________________
It's 11:59
------------
OPEC sec. gen. Abdullah al-Badri, June 10, '08: "We are panicking too much."
------------
If you're not a Doomer, then you don't understand the problem.
------------
Part of the problem is believing that there is a "solution" |
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kublikhan
Heavy Crude
Joined: Nov 06, 2007
Posts: 474
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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| Cashmere wrote: | | Like all other technology that's predicted or theoretical, I'll believe it when I see it. |
Why must people post this refrain to everything in the technology forum? This isn't the ace hardware forum, click here to get your cellulose refinery half off. I come here to see some of the latest developments in energy technology. If you only want to hear about the latest gadget you can buy in the store, go to the planning for the future forum.
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The oil barrel is half-full. |
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kublikhan
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Joined: Nov 06, 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: cellustic wave of the future |
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Some more cellulose ethanol related updates:
| Quote: | | Until now, biofuels from non-food cellulosic plant material has been a dream with significant technological and economic hurdles. How do you break down the rigid structures that give plants the ability to survive the environmental changes of seasons and severe weather? How do you do this at a price point that is comparable to existing biofuels? The joint venture between DuPont and the Genencor division of Danisco is answering these questions. The joint venture will deliver integrated cellulosic ethanol technology packages to every region of the world, utilizing regional cellulosic biomass feedstock to offer the most cost effective and efficient technology with the smallest environmental footprint. |
dupontdanisco
| Quote: | The farm bill agreement that key House and Senate negotiators reached Friday would extend and reduce the tax credit for conventional ethanol and the tariff on imported ethanol. It would also give new subsidies for cellulosic ethanol -- derived from crop debris, woody plants and grasses.
The move marks a significant shift for some lawmakers who have been some of the biggest advocates for ethanol supports, and for the booming grain and refinery industries that have come with them. "This is a signal to the country," Peterson added, "that we're serious about moving away from corn to cellulose." |
Corn subsidies cut, New cellulose subsides added
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