I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
I have to say, there are so many parallels between the U.S. and the British Empire of old. It sometimes seems that so much that used to great about America's economy and its military in terms of organization and commitment seems to have fallen down in the past generation. The zeal has gone. Innovation gone. Leadership gone, replaced by yes men (and women, these days). It reminds me of how post war Canada came to see the British as washed up, even though we were a part of the British Commonwealth.
As Siddiqui says in the column:
"The American era is over," said someone last year in Doha, the capital of pro-American Qatar.
"How so?" I argued. "The U.S. is still the only superpower."
"A military power and a great killing machine, yes, but not much else," he said. "We maintain our relations with the U.S. but our thinking is now post-American."
Their outlook is, of course, coloured by Iraq and Afghanistan. But it is not all ideological. They wonder why the U.S., despite spending $700 billion in those two countries, has been incapable of providing clean water, electricity, security and essentials of life. Why it couldn't do so even for its own citizens post-Katrina. Why its soldiers and army of private contractors are so incompetent."
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
Quote:
Their outlook is, of course, coloured by Iraq and Afghanistan. But it is not all ideological. They wonder why the U.S., despite spending $700 billion in those two countries, has been incapable of providing clean water, electricity, security and essentials of life. Why it couldn't do so even for its own citizens post-Katrina. Why its soldiers and army of private contractors are so incompetent."
There is always some rat in the corner waiting for the lion to fall so he may be able to get a nibble more than usual.
No different here.
Yes, the U.S. is on the decline, but to think, "it's over" is premature. The rat needs to be careful, least he be shown how easy it is to kill rats.
With nothing else but the military, the U.S. calls the shots into the near future. What happens in 50 years? Who knows. But for today and tomorrow and the next day, the rats will have to wait some more.
Quote:
They wonder why the U.S., despite spending $700 billion in those two countries, has been incapable of providing clean water, electricity, security and essentials of life.
They're idiots, as rats often are, if they're too stupid to see that the Empire is not in those two countries to play nanny.
Quote:
"Why it couldn't do so even for its own citizens post-Katrina."
Of course it could - it chose not to. Why is a different conversation. At the end of the day, the total death toll was a paltry 1,800. How many of the 1,800 could have been saved if the entire U.S. army arrived 10 minutes after the storm? Probably very few.
What made Katrina different was images of thousands of poor black people in the Superdome for a week. They didn't starve, they didn't die of thirst. The worst that can be said was that they lived in more-than-usual squalor for a few days.
In the end, I couldn't give a crap less about people who were . . .
1. Dumb enough to live below sea level on the coast in Hurricane Alley.
and
2. Dumb enough not to leave when the storm passed over Florida and was predicted to hit near New Orleans a full 2 days in advance of land fall.
So, IMO, the whole Katrina thing was overblown and just gave a great reason to blast the moron-in-chief more than usual.
Of all the things he's done poorly and that have hurt the country, the response to Katrina is not even on my list.
So tell the rats that.
You want to see a disorganized response leading to more death . .
See Thailand, Myanmar, China.
The Empire is declining . . . but there's a long way to go before it smacks the ground completely.
Jeez - the Byzantines hung around, like, forever. _________________ Massive Human Dieoff must occur as a result of Peak Oil. Many more than half will die. It will occur everywhere, including where you live. If you fail to recognize this, then your odds of living move toward the "going to die" group.
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
It soon will be yes. _________________ Just look at us. Everything is backwards; everything is upside down. Doctors destory health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the major media destroy information and religions destroy spirituality.
Joined: Apr 12, 2007 Posts: 1185 Location: Central NC
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
Cashmere wrote:
The Empire is declining . . . but there's a long way to go before it smacks the ground completely.
Jeez - the Byzantines hung around, like, forever.
Cash,
I would suggest that the "forever" of today is a blink of an eye compared to the "forever" of of yesteryear. Technology has sped up the progression of events exponentially.
Joined: Sep 16, 2007 Posts: 1424 Location: Oklahoma City, USA
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
vision-master wrote:
Fixed:
In the end, I couldn't give a crap less about people who were . . .
1. DumbPoor enough to live below sea level on the coast in Hurricane Alley.
and
2. DumbPoor enough not to leave when the storm passed over Florida and was predicted to hit near New Orleans a full 2 days in advance of land fall.
The thing about Katrina was that if the levees hadn't broken it would have been a non-issue. The Army Corps of Engineers in their incompetence were the ones who killed all those people. _________________ Conservation is conservative
It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change. -- Charles Darwin
I have to say, there are so many parallels between the U.S. and the British Empire of old. It sometimes seems that so much that used to great about America's economy and its military in terms of organization and commitment seems to have fallen down in the past generation. The zeal has gone. Innovation gone. Leadership gone, replaced by yes men (and women, these days). It reminds me of how post war Canada came to see the British as washed up, even though we were a part of the British Commonwealth.
As Siddiqui says in the column:
"The American era is over," said someone last year in Doha, the capital of pro-American Qatar.
"How so?" I argued. "The U.S. is still the only superpower."
"A military power and a great killing machine, yes, but not much else," he said. "We maintain our relations with the U.S. but our thinking is now post-American."
Their outlook is, of course, coloured by Iraq and Afghanistan. But it is not all ideological. They wonder why the U.S., despite spending $700 billion in those two countries, has been incapable of providing clean water, electricity, security and essentials of life. Why it couldn't do so even for its own citizens post-Katrina. Why its soldiers and army of private contractors are so incompetent."
Worth pointing out that the British Empire lasted 300 years and included most of the planet (at least those parts that mattered). The North American colonies were not re-enforced during the revolution because it was considered a minor matter compared to the issue of potentially loosing India to the French.
The French gave military help to G. Washington including a naval blocade which eventually starved the British out. The siege of New York was (famously) broken by the French garrison & due credits followed...
Meanwhile Britain had already consolidated in Canada and broken out of Madras to rout the French out of southern India (& subsequently out of most of Asia).
The rest, as one says, is history.
BTW Iraq was run as a minor British protectorate up until the mid-20'th century along with other scattered territories in the Middle East including Yeman, Egypt, Palestine etc.
We made the phones & the water & railways work in most cases across the world, & also handled minor insurrections from South Africa to Australia without too many problems.
The British withdrawal was a bit chatoic in places but most of the countries we left behind us are still (semi) functional democracies with a strong national identity & still participate in that collective group of nations called the 'British Commenwealth'.
So what is this 'American Era (Empire?)' people speak of???
Joined: Aug 11, 2005 Posts: 816 Location: Eastern NC
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 4:31 pm Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
JPL
My applause to the Brits, I lived in one of those colonies for a period and you are exactly right.
I don't think the US is at its final gasps, they said the same during the Vietnam era. And that comment coming out of Qatar is hilarious, if we stepped out of that area for a brief pause, or withdraw to our own shores, the middle east would reduce itself to rubble in a manner of years. If there is a worldwide decline at least we'll be able to feed ourselves.
Katrina, sorry, Core of Engineers doesn't build perfect, Class 5 Hurricane resistant levees, they never will, especially for below sea level cities, suck it up. They are not responsible for the idiots that remained behind. Sorry Vision master, but repeatedly electing a mayor who lets buses get drowned is a symptom of stupid, not poverty.
I have to say, there are so many parallels between the U.S. and the British Empire of old. It sometimes seems that so much that used to great about America's economy and its military in terms of organization and commitment seems to have fallen down in the past generation. The zeal has gone. Innovation gone. Leadership gone, replaced by yes men (and women, these days). It reminds me of how post war Canada came to see the British as washed up, even though we were a part of the British Commonwealth.
As Siddiqui says in the column:
"The American era is over," said someone last year in Doha, the capital of pro-American Qatar.
"How so?" I argued. "The U.S. is still the only superpower."
"A military power and a great killing machine, yes, but not much else," he said. "We maintain our relations with the U.S. but our thinking is now post-American."
Their outlook is, of course, coloured by Iraq and Afghanistan. But it is not all ideological. They wonder why the U.S., despite spending $700 billion in those two countries, has been incapable of providing clean water, electricity, security and essentials of life. Why it couldn't do so even for its own citizens post-Katrina. Why its soldiers and army of private contractors are so incompetent."
The US was always a train headed for this inevitable wreck, with the rest of the world being dragged along. No society, no matter how innovative, will survive with a culture based on individualism and the nuclear family to the exclusion of the collective, with irrational beliefs such as ethnocentrism and religion and with the notion that the market above all reigns supreme. The current generation of American and increasingly, the rest of the world are in thrall off all the values that have been ascendent with the fall of the collective. I'm sorry to have to tell you that America and now the rest of the world is precisely where it is meant to be given the choices we have made in choosing corporate free markets over common sustainable development.
To be frank I am depressed by the certain realisation that we are headed for a massive catastrophe on this planet, one that whilst it may be no more than a blip in terms of this planets overall integrity as one of the constituent planets of our solar system, will be devastating for us as a species, and many of our silent fellow planetary dwellers.
Our technology offered us the potential to make a utopia for ourselves on this exquisitely beautiful planet, and we blew it....all for what, big steel boxes on round rubber tyres and other rather ugly toys.
Pity. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: Mar 18, 2006 Posts: 1258 Location: Off with the Fey Folk
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
Pops wrote:
This was the new world, we had lots of resources, which we exploited for a profit.
We exploited oil and were for a while the leading producer.
Now we are not, just the leading debtor.
So what do we do now?
Well you've already had your revolution so I guess that's out of the question.
The resource base is still pretty good & there is a low population level so things can be fixed up OK. Also the social resources are there.
I think in 20 years time the USA, after the financial & post-oil industrial collapse, will still be a food exporter & a world power on maybe the scale that Brazil is today. A regional power, with an odd & interesting history.
There is nothing in this future to be ashamed about, & possibly a lot to look forward to. You never know...
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
Pops wrote:
This was the new world, we had lots of resources, which we exploited for a profit.
We exploited oil and were for a while the leading producer.
Now we are not, just the leading debtor.
So what do we do now?
Strange, the things celebrated not so long ago are now seen as the seeds of doom. This is an excerpt from the speech given by Preident Dwight D. Eisenhower at the opeining of th4e St. Lawrence Seqway in 1959:
"This waterway, linking the oceans of the world with the Great Lakes of the American continent, is the culmination of the dreams of thousands of individuals on both sides of our common Canadian-United States border. It is the latest event in a long history of peaceful parallel progress by our two peoples.
Side by side we have grown up together. Long ago we found solutions for many of the problems characteristic of pioneering peoples. We have built nations out of vast stretches of virgin territory and transformed a wilderness into one of the most productive areas on earth. We are still developing better means of production and communication and supporting measures needed for the welfare of our respective peoples. "
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 2098 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
JPL wrote:
Pops wrote:
This was the new world, we had lots of resources, which we exploited for a profit.
We exploited oil and were for a while the leading producer.
Now we are not, just the leading debtor.
So what do we do now?
Well you've already had your revolution so I guess that's out of the question.
The resource base is still pretty good & there is a low population level so things can be fixed up OK. Also the social resources are there.
I think in 20 years time the USA, after the financial & post-oil industrial collapse, will still be a food exporter & a world power on maybe the scale that Brazil is today. A regional power, with an odd & interesting history.
There is nothing in this future to be ashamed about, & possibly a lot to look forward to. You never know...
JP
Cornucopianism is like a drug addiction. Not only has it afflicted the US, but now also the entire globe. I suspect that we will see a bumpy plateau of apathy as countries intent on replicating the American dream such as China, Russia and places such as Dubai, press on headlong to preserve and maintain the markets mechanisms created by free market corporate America. No country stands alone any longer. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 2330 Location: Pennsylvania, USA
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
It all depends on Americans. If they keep on electing incompetents, then the nation will fade. America's strength has always been it's immigrants, it's tradition of offering hope to those looking for a new and better life. Right now, America has an image problem and that needs to be fixed. _________________ "That's the problem with mercy, kid... It just ain't professional" - Fast Eddie, The Color of Money
Joined: Oct 18, 2004 Posts: 2098 Location: kiwibush
Posted: Sun May 18, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: Re: Is the American Era over?
Kingcoal wrote:
It all depends on Americans. If they keep on electing incompetents, then the nation will fade. America's strength has always been it's immigrants, it's tradition of offering hope to those looking for a new and better life. Right now, America has an image problem and that needs to be fixed.
Americans can take some satisfaction though in the knowledge that the American era is alve and kicking all across the globe, from St Petersburg to Beijing. _________________ Bugger me, I hear oil's runnin out mate!
All times are GMT - 6 Hours Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Next
Page 1 of 7
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
News
Discussions
Resources
Members
Forum FAQ
Search
Usergroups
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
