Future of timber (for timber owners and aficionados)

Ludi

I'm very much with you on that, Heineken. I think it is very possible to use timber in a way which benefits both humans and the forest.

I have to admit our woods here are badly neglected, and large sections of our land are overgrown with what they call here "regrowth cedar" or Ashe Juniper which has encroached upon savannah. In ye olden days, these trees tended to stay in canyons and steep areas where they were protected from fire, but since the prairie fires were stopped, they have taken over large areas, blocking out the grass and to an extent preventing growth of other trees (it's actually more complicated than this simplistic overview). Cedar is a useful tree, some large specimens can be milled for lumber, and of course it makes fine fence posts. But I don't have the strength to do much clearing, unfortunately. We have a very nice north facing slope which might be suitable for black cherry or other trees, but it is mostly cedar now and will probably remain so.

We collect firewood from our woods, but there is far more than we can use of both oak and cedar. We generally only cut oaks which have died naturally, but there are more than we can use, even on our small place (maybe 12 acres of trees).
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"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy

Heineken

It costs US$1,500 to $2,000 per year to maintain a horse, SCF. Undoubtedly much more for a draft horse.

I agree that tool-sharpening skills will be much in demand in future. I can't remember the name of it (it starts with an "F"), but there is a company that sells home-training courses and quality equipment. I've sometimes thought of taking them up on it but probably never will; too much else to do! (So what am I doing sitting here typing??)
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

TnAndy · Heavy Crude Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 100

I suppose I could log with horses, but they are way more fuel intensive to feed than my tractor if you add it all up. They have to be fed EVERY day, whereas my tractor only requires fuel when I use it, and it's pretty stingy then. You can work a couple days on 5 gallons of diesel.....and I have plenty stored.

I use approximately 150 gallons of diesel a year......and a lot of that has nothing to do with the sawmill......gardening, running the trash can down to the gate, putting round bales out for the cattle in winter, etc.

2 1/2 gallons of gasoline will saw all day on the sawmill ( 18hp Briggs engine ) and produce 800-1200 bdft of lumber.....and I'd imagine I could run that on woodgas or homemade ethanol IF it came to that....

As to mechanical nightmares, my Woodmizer mill is simple as can be......although I did have to order some new brushes for one of the electric motors on it last week....it finally quit after 17 years ! I've changed a few belts on it over the years, but basically, other than oil changes on the Briggs and Stratton engine on the saw, and grease a few fittings, there IS no maintenance.

Heineken

Fredrik

I agree with others that demand for firewood will only go upwards, especially if coal is running out as soon as some recent studies say. Energy-intensive forest and sawmill machinery will probably be replaced by humble unemployed people who are eager to cut and saw wood for food and lodging. Too bad I only own barely enough woodland to warm our cottage...
_________________
"The progress of civilization:
bondage --> spiritual faith --> courage --> liberty --> abundance --> complacency --> apathy --> dependence --> bondage." - Alexander Tyler

Heineken

Heineken

Folks, take a look at

http://www.chicagoclimatex.com/index.jsf

Selling carbon credits to polluters may be an option for landowners so inclined.
_________________
"Actually, humans died out long ago."
---Abused, abandoned hunting dog

"Things have entered a stage where the only change that is possible is for things to get worse."
---Me and my brother

TnAndy · Heavy Crude Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 100

The blades will saw about 400bdft before they need to be sharpened....depends more on how dirty the log is.....I try to log them out as clean as I can by winching them up tight, and then raising the winch so the only the last foot or so drags the ground. New Woodmizer mills have a debarker option....a small carbide tipped cutter that runs directly in front of the blade and cuts a very narrow strip of the bark out so the blade doesn't hit dirty bark.....but mine is too old for that option....so I simply try to roll the logs to saw mostly in clean bark, or take a small hand ax to the bark and chip out where the blade needs to travel.

I do resharpen my own.....when I bought the mill in 91, that was the only option, so I bought the sharpening package too....it uses a small, 12v motor to grind and automatically advance the blade.....all you have to do is place the blade in the machine and come back to take it off when it's done......even shuts itself off after one pass around the band. Then I use a manual tooth setter to put the correct amount of set in the teeth. Takes about 15 minuter per blade, but most of that is sharpening time, and I can be doing something else while it's on the grinder.

Woodmizer now has a blade sharpening service, last I knew they charged 6 bucks, plus it ran about 2 bucks/blade for shipping round trip.....8 bucks in a sharpened blade seems sorta high to me, so I don't use the service, but it's there if folks want it.

New blades run about 20 bucks each. I can sharpen mine 8-10 times before metal fatigue sets in and they fail. ( that steel makes the most AWESOME fish filet knife you ever saw, though.....so all is not lost....ahahahaa )

dunewalker

Ludi, we have the same issues here with Western Juniper. The feds have a juniper eradication program that is a blatant political concession to the cattle industry. The scientific rationale is absurd: "juniper sucks up all the water and out-competes the grasses". The main reason behind "juniper encroachment" is 125 years of overgrazing, and fire suppression, as you said. The encroaching junipers are healing the soil profile, providing a microclimate of shade and a drip line, which enhances grass restoration. The truth is that cows don't eat juniper , therefore it is "worthless". If the goal is to restore the natural grasslands, then fire needs to be re-introduced and grazing removed--permanently. Of course that would never fly. A forest of encroaching juniper is not a new climax forest, but a transition back to grasslands, for as soon as we discontinue fire suppression efforts (possibly next year, as fire fighting depends heavily upon fossil fuels), and we discontinue running cows on these lands, when the market collapses, the grasslands will return, eventually.
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"When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon."
Thomas Paine

SpringCreekFarm · Intermediate Crude Joined: Mar 03, 2006 Posts: 931

TnAndy · Heavy Crude Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 100

There is no arguing with horse lovers....ahahahahaaa.....

As Heineken said, it runs 1500 to 2000 to keep one of those hay burners ( Very Happy

) around.....right now, I can buy 400 gallons of diesel fuel for that.....2-3 years worth of tractor fuel for me. Down the road, who knows.....but who knows what horse shoes, oats and vet costs will be either.....

I only have about 6 acres of pasture.....not enough to really hay and pasture ( I keep some cattle ) both for more than 1-2 animals, so I would have to buy hay most likely.....and feed oats.....and when diesel goes up, so does that.......so unless you have 10-20 ac to run pasture, hay and some small grain for feed, a person is STILL at the mercy of outside economic forces.

I have 600 gallons of stored diesel fuel.....I don't plan to line up at a
pump anytime soon......and when I do, I'll be paying in gold.

Dandy looking red oak logs you've got there, by the way.

Ludi

Dunewalker, in my part of the country, removing grazing is not necessary, as the prairie evolved to be grazed seasonally by bison. However, what needs to change is overgrazing and set-stocking. Rotational grazing with long rest periods seems to be an appropriate approach, with fire if one can manage it (we can't).

I agree juniper/cedar "encroachment" is a symptom of overgrazing, and not harmful in itself, as the cedars rebuild soil on slopes. Management of cedar and restoration of grasslands is a complicated subject, not properly addressed by the "Cedar is Evil" brigade.
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"...powerdown so soft and fluffy you'll think you're living in a pillow." - jboogy

dunewalker

skyemoor · Last edited by skyemoor on Wed May 21, 2008 1:12 pm; edited 2 times in total

TnAndy · Heavy Crude Joined: Aug 31, 2005 Posts: 100

Started when I was in high school in the mid 60's....working for the Forest Service on a TSI (Timber Stand Improvement) crew......we would go in behind logging operations and cut down the trees they didn't take to make complete clear cuts......that was the theory of the time, that the forest was better off coming up all together rather than leaving crappy trees to shade out and take water from new growth. Did that for 2 summers.

Took a break for an all expenses paid vacation with the US Army after that, then when I came back, decided to go to college. Just so happened we were in the last "energy crisis" of the 70's and burning firewood was ever so popular......so I would go to the woods cleaning up behind logging crews (again, sigh) and cut and split a load of firewood every day ( 2 on Sat ) after morning classes and take it to town to sell door to door.....if I had a rare day when I couldn't sell it, I brought it home for our stove. That went on for two years, and finally a logger offered me a summer job, so I cut real timber for a while then, ran skidder, knuckleboom loader, whatever.....

Got into building houses after that and got away from logging, but always wanted my own mill. Bought some mountain land in the early 80s......logged out the some timber to build our house, and took it to buddy that had a commercial circle saw mill......I'd done a lot of wiring and some construction work for him, so we traded out labor on the sawing.

My first "sawmill" was a Granberg Alaskan Mill that attached to an 045 Stihl chainsaw...built my barn here with it, 24x30......slow as heck, but if you have more time than money, one way to go.

Finally got 'ahead' enough to buy my Woodmizer mill, in 1991, and been sawing off my own place, as well as some occasional custom sawing off my place for other people. I have a friend down the road that runs a pallet operation, with a scragg mill ( special type of sawmill for sawing small diameter logs for pallet lumber ) and I took my mill down there to saw the framing lumber for a 40x64 and a 50x200 post frame building.....nice sawing.....he would run them thru his debarker, set them on my mill with a knuckleboom and take the slabs to his chipper ( chips go to paper mill )with a fork lift....all I had to do was SAW.....best footage per day I ever got ! Smile

I figure I've sawed somewhere close to a million bdft over the last 17 years, and my initial investment of 14K in the mill has paid for itself many times over.....

That's my story.