I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Would you like to increase the population of the US?
Amnesty for illegal immigrants
2%
[ 2 ]
Increase of H1B visas
2%
[ 2 ]
Open-door policy for all who want to move to the US
9%
[ 8 ]
Shut the door now on everybody
35%
[ 30 ]
Throw the illegals out
40%
[ 34 ]
Limited immigration that benefits the big business
1%
[ 1 ]
Merge the US and Mexico
9%
[ 8 ]
Total Votes : 85
Author
Message
Nickel Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Pretorian wrote:
Then I'll leave the country. What, there is no life outside of US border? Or I'll get that citizenship .
Suppose they don't LET you leave 'cause you have a bill to pay for all the goodies you got, not even being a citizen? What if they don't WANT you as a citizen, like the kids changing the Constitution would disenfranchize? I mean, if we're going to talk in weird, cryptic possibilities, what makes YOU so smug and secure? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
socrates1fan wrote:
Depends, maybe employers would choose to keep hiring illegals.
The government here doesn't enforce anything with citizenship and all that.
So pretty much it makes more sense to you for the family to be deported but the kid left behind?
0_o
I'm not seeing how the children of illegals becoming citizens benefits anyone.
Have you been to the US lately?
Here in the midwest jobs are getting harder to find, electric bills are getting higher, food is costing more, the housing market is horrible, transportation costs have gone through the roof, the lower class is suffering very badly, etc
It isn't 1994 down here anymore.
The midwest has always been the industrial and economic feet of the nation, but lack of jobs here is starting to drive people to crime.
I'm proud that my nation has accepted immigrants.
But we have to put a halt on any population coming in other than children being born by Americans(even then producing x-amount of kids should be encouraged) and we really can't handle all of this immigration.
As much as the US government portrays the US as this police of the world, on the civilian level this country is suffering badly.
I think people should be proud of their immigrant ancestors BUT that doesn't mean we should just let everyone come in so they can become Americans generations from now.
I'm sure you wouldn't be so open to illegal's kids staying if Canada was being flooded with illegal aliens.
Yes.
No.
Maybe.
7.
Horticulture.
DPI 300, and your white cell count is...?
What, are you incapable of addressing points directly? It's really not that hard. Watch this...
socrates1fan wrote:
So pretty much it makes more sense to you for the family to be deported but the kid left behind?
If part of the idea of moving to another country is to secure a better life for your kids, does this really strike you as an extraordinary idea? One might leave the child with a relative who is a landed immigrant, for example. It's less likely than simply leaving as a whole family, but not unheard of.
socrates1fan wrote:
Here in the midwest jobs are getting harder to find, electric bills are getting higher, food is costing more, the housing market is horrible, transportation costs have gone through the roof, the lower class is suffering very badly, etc
What possible bearing does minutiae like that have on the right of citizenship to people born in the United States? What, the price of bread goes up a dime and the next 50,000 kids born should be denied that right and sent back to whichever country their surname hails from?
socrates1fan wrote:
It isn't 1994 down here anymore.
It's not 1984, either. Or some dystopian Mad Max-esque future. Take a Ritalin.
socrates1fan wrote:
I'm proud that my nation has accepted immigrants.
So long as they're YOURS, yeah.
socrates1fan wrote:
and we really can't handle all of this immigration.
Says who, exactly? What, China can manage to be up-and-coming with 1.3 billion and you're screaming blue murder, doom, and despair at a mere 300 million? You can't even get to 400 million before you squeal?
socrates1fan wrote:
I think people should be proud of their immigrant ancestors BUT that doesn't mean we should just let everyone come in so they can become Americans generations from now.
Let me see if I can drill this into your noggin. I am not talking about bestowing citizenship on anyone who just shows up. I am talking about the continuation of the existing right to citizenship to anyone born in the United States.
socrates1fan wrote:
I'm sure you wouldn't be so open to illegal's kids staying if Canada was being flooded with illegal aliens.
Kids born here aren't "illegal". They're citizens. And I advocate doing everything we can to incorporate them into the nation, facilitate their identification with it, feel attachment to it, defend its interests as their own, and take their place within it. Anything else is suicide. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:
We get it, Nickel.
Why are y'all still debating this after 3 pages of redundancy?
Because frankly, I don't believe anyone's thought it through. It's a knee-jerk appeal to emotionalism that replaces a wider appreciation of the good of the nation with a salve of prejudicial irritants. The more I take the opportunity to point it out, quiet honestly, the more likely people are to give it some second thought instead of just nodding with the herd.
I think many people here have thought it out they just disagree on what would be better for the US right now.
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
socrates1fan wrote:
Depends, maybe employers would choose to keep hiring illegals.
The government here doesn't enforce anything with citizenship and all that.
So pretty much it makes more sense to you for the family to be deported but the kid left behind?
0_o
I'm not seeing how the children of illegals becoming citizens benefits anyone.
Have you been to the US lately?
Here in the midwest jobs are getting harder to find, electric bills are getting higher, food is costing more, the housing market is horrible, transportation costs have gone through the roof, the lower class is suffering very badly, etc
It isn't 1994 down here anymore.
The midwest has always been the industrial and economic feet of the nation, but lack of jobs here is starting to drive people to crime.
I'm proud that my nation has accepted immigrants.
But we have to put a halt on any population coming in other than children being born by Americans(even then producing x-amount of kids should be encouraged) and we really can't handle all of this immigration.
As much as the US government portrays the US as this police of the world, on the civilian level this country is suffering badly.
I think people should be proud of their immigrant ancestors BUT that doesn't mean we should just let everyone come in so they can become Americans generations from now.
I'm sure you wouldn't be so open to illegal's kids staying if Canada was being flooded with illegal aliens.
Yes.
No.
Maybe.
7.
Horticulture.
DPI 300, and your white cell count is...?
What, are you incapable of addressing points directly? It's really not that hard. Watch this...
socrates1fan wrote:
So pretty much it makes more sense to you for the family to be deported but the kid left behind?
If part of the idea of moving to another country is to secure a better life for your kids, does this really strike you as an extraordinary idea? One might leave the child with a relative who is a landed immigrant, for example. It's less likely than simply leaving as a whole family, but not unheard of.
socrates1fan wrote:
Here in the midwest jobs are getting harder to find, electric bills are getting higher, food is costing more, the housing market is horrible, transportation costs have gone through the roof, the lower class is suffering very badly, etc
What possible bearing does minutiae like that have on the right of citizenship to people born in the United States? What, the price of bread goes up a dime and the next 50,000 kids born should be denied that right and sent back to whichever country their surname hails from?
socrates1fan wrote:
It isn't 1994 down here anymore.
It's not 1984, either. Or some dystopian Mad Max-esque future. Take a Ritalin.
socrates1fan wrote:
I'm proud that my nation has accepted immigrants.
So long as they're YOURS, yeah.
socrates1fan wrote:
and we really can't handle all of this immigration.
Says who, exactly? What, China can manage to be up-and-coming with 1.3 billion and you're screaming blue murder, doom, and despair at a mere 300 million? You can't even get to 400 million before you squeal?
socrates1fan wrote:
I think people should be proud of their immigrant ancestors BUT that doesn't mean we should just let everyone come in so they can become Americans generations from now.
Let me see if I can drill this into your noggin. I am not talking about bestowing citizenship on anyone who just shows up. I am talking about the continuation of the existing right to citizenship to anyone born in the United States.
socrates1fan wrote:
I'm sure you wouldn't be so open to illegal's kids staying if Canada was being flooded with illegal aliens.
Kids born here aren't "illegal". They're citizens. And I advocate doing everything we can to incorporate them into the nation, facilitate their identification with it, feel attachment to it, defend its interests as their own, and take their place within it. Anything else is suicide.
7 kids? 0_o your crazy!
Apologies, I tend to misunderstand peoples questions but I'm not incapable of answering your questions or perhaps they just arent the questions you wish to hear.
No. Like I said, if America was going through the problems it is right now and my ancestors popped up and had kids I'd be all for them sending my ancestors back to Germany. But by the cruelty of fate I live here, and my family has lived in the same region for 170 years.
Its not like I can go back to Germany now.
I understand people want a better life for their kids but we can only give a better life to so many kids.
America isn't an endless jar of peace and wealth.
There are limits believe it or not and those limits are hitting Americans hard in the face right now.
No, I wasn't talking about the book 1984
I was talking about the over all economic growth and lack of problems in 1994.
Or at least it was that way in the lives of midwestern civilians.
If you've ever been in 7th grade social studies and world history you would know that China is having major problems with over population in both resources and space. Historically things are different in China and believe it or not, they have enough land to at the least feed the population(Not saying America can't but it might not be able to in the near future.).
Sorry I must have misunderstood you.
Yes, I'm all for having those laws when your country is in economic prosperity or even a time of decent economy.
Canada isn't having problems with over population. America is starting to have those problems with everything from funding, crime, resources, water, etc.
Laws have to change during certian situations to keep the population that there is at the least sustained.
If your in a lifeboat and its already full but people want on from every direction are you gonna let everyone's kid on and let the boat sink or crack a few knuckles so the people on the boat can live?
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1442 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:40 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
Pretorian wrote:
Then I'll leave the country. What, there is no life outside of US border? Or I'll get that citizenship .
Suppose they don't LET you leave 'cause you have a bill to pay for all the goodies you got, not even being a citizen? What if they don't WANT you as a citizen, like the kids changing the Constitution would disenfranchize? I mean, if we're going to talk in weird, cryptic possibilities, what makes YOU so smug and secure?
You see, things like that do not happen overnight. Hitler was elected almost 10 years before German Jews were handed some spades and shovels. And it took him a good 10-12 years to go from a homeless bum-foreigner to a Chancellor of Germany.
So I am pretty sure I will move or get the citizenship before it happens.
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
socrates1fan wrote:
I think many people here have thought it out they just disagree on what would be better for the US right now.
I think when you tell people what's actually involved -- the repudiation of the 14th Amendment, the one tied to ensuring the equality of people under the law that was promised in the Declaration of Independence but not delivered upon in the Constitution till the 1860s and in practice, the 1960s -- they'll likely balk at what you're suggesting. Some won't, I know... that's obvious. But I believe most would draw the line short of what you're proposing.
And, again, denying those born here citizenship isn't going to solve the problems you're lamenting. Enforcing the law again employing illegal immigrants by giving the employers jail time certainly would. You're focused on an issue with a collateral, not causal, relationship to your goals. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 5:32 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Pretorian wrote:
You see, things like that do not happen overnight. Hitler was elected almost 10 years before German Jews were handed some spades and shovels. And it took him a good 10-12 years to go from a homeless bum-foreigner to a Chancellor of Germany.
So I am pretty sure I will move or get the citizenship before it happens.
So rather than consider what it's like to walk in another man's shoes -- the shoes you're proposing to put on someone else's feet, in fact -- your response is to say "I'm alright, Jack; screw the rest"? You're a real mensch, Pretorian. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Old Dominion
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Look at it this way Nickel, automatic citizenship is just the precurser. Our country's soverinty is being violated and many of out cities (esp. in the SW and Kali.) are being trashed and converted into the third-world populated by drug dealers, gang-bangers and assorted other trash that do not speak English nor do they embrace our culture, even after several generations.
Why should the American public have to pay using public funds to teach some forgein kid here illegally in a language other than English in a public school classroom?
Why should American citizens stand for being taunted, ridiculed, and threatened in the streets of an American city by an unruly mob waving a Mexican flag and consisting of the dregs of Mexico and Central America, (most of whom came here illegally) yelling they will kill the "white man" and take the SW?
Are you a citizen of the U.S. Nickel? If you are not, your opinion doesn't matter one wit. (Actually, isn't doesn't matter either way to me, personally.) _________________ "If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1442 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
Pretorian wrote:
You see, things like that do not happen overnight. Hitler was elected almost 10 years before German Jews were handed some spades and shovels. And it took him a good 10-12 years to go from a homeless bum-foreigner to a Chancellor of Germany.
So I am pretty sure I will move or get the citizenship before it happens.
So rather than consider what it's like to walk in another man's shoes -- the shoes you're proposing to put on someone else's feet, in fact -- your response is to say "I'm alright, Jack; screw the rest"? You're a real mensch, Pretorian.
Please don't forget that we hadn't share some mazza together so dont speak Yiddish to me. I've been a legal immigrant in 2 countries and an illegal in one , so I believe I know that better than you do. I was deported too, once. I got arrested just because I was in the same car with some illegals despite that I had a valid tourist visa for six months. Arrest, green sausages in jail and home sweet home all within 72 hours. So what? When someone breaks the law he should know that he can be caught don't you think?
Last edited by Pretorian on Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1442 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:32 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
ORCA wrote:
Why should the American public have to pay using public funds to teach some forgein kid here illegally in a language other than English in a public school classroom?
Why should American citizens stand for being taunted, ridiculed, and threatened in the streets of an American city by an unruly mob waving a Mexican flag and consisting of the dregs of Mexico and Central America, (most of whom came here illegally) yelling they will kill the "white man" and take the SW?
Because, ORCA, there are some special people who happened to be "next in the line", so to say, after hispanic mestizzos, Negros and alike. And these people are interested in making this line as long as possible. So first they will let these peoples in, as much as possible, then they'll brainwash your kids long enough to breed with them, to populate this country and countless others with rootless raceless mongrels with an IQ of 80 or so, big enough to do some work and too small to ask questions.
That's why.
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Old Dominion
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Just one big bump in the road in that plan, pal. The American people are still armed to the teeth and the most recent SCOTUS decision has made taking them away a lot harder!
People are fairly tolerant...to a point. While slow to anger, once that point is reached drastic changes will be made. _________________ "If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."
Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2008 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
ORCA wrote:
Just one big bump in the road in that plan, pal. The American people are still armed to the teeth and the most recent SCOTUS decision has made taking them away a lot harder!
People are fairly tolerant...to a point. While slow to anger, once that point is reached drastic changes will be made.
People I think have more tolerance for groups that are American and English speaking.
Mexican culture and American culture are like to cultural shocks clashing together.
People won't dislike them because of their culture or the fact they 'look different' but rather because they are compitetion and plus in hard times they need someone to blame.
Sort of like the nazis and the jews.
Joined: Apr 08, 2006 Posts: 1442 Location: Somewhere there
Posted: Fri Jul 11, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
ORCA wrote:
Just one big bump in the road in that plan, pal. The American people are still armed to the teeth and the most recent SCOTUS decision has made taking them away a lot harder!
People are fairly tolerant...to a point. While slow to anger, once that point is reached drastic changes will be made.
That plan was working for 50 years or so, mind me reminding you. You are about to have a raceless rootless mongrel as a President this year.
And one big thing about guns. Many if not most people who owned them haven't killed a chicken in their lifetime. They take their dogs 30 miles away to a vet and pay $100 to kill them. You can use them to protect yourself from intruders in your house, or ( armed ) violence outside of it, but how many can actually shoot the guy down and finish him off since leaving a wounded criminal alive is the worst mistake one can ever make in his/her life?
Besides, what guns can even do against this plan/strategy? Do you grab a gun and use it when you see your local university to accept some Africans as students? May be you grab the gun and use it when you see them stralling around with white women? Do you use it when they start to spawn mulattos left and right?
Do you use it when they grow up and start spawning mongrels themselves? Do you use it when you see a TV-show/or a movie for teenage audience which tells you that black cock is big and sweet, and how cool is to have one at hand, and how uncool is to be with a white guy?
Its a non-violent invasion. You can't solve it with weapons, well may be after tshtf.
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