I think this is the beginnings of an economy based on perpetual growth and fossil fuel energy running headlong into geological energy constraints. Basically I see an undulatory downward path for the rest of my life. From here out, I think any rallies in our economic condition are going to be met with spiking commodity prices that knock us right back down.
Would you like to increase the population of the US?
Amnesty for illegal immigrants
2%
[ 2 ]
Increase of H1B visas
2%
[ 2 ]
Open-door policy for all who want to move to the US
9%
[ 8 ]
Shut the door now on everybody
35%
[ 30 ]
Throw the illegals out
40%
[ 34 ]
Limited immigration that benefits the big business
1%
[ 1 ]
Merge the US and Mexico
9%
[ 8 ]
Total Votes : 85
Author
Message
Nickel Light Sweet Crude
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Tyler_JC wrote:
1. I mean that the United States should adopt immigration policies that benefit the United States.
Oh, the United States, the country... not America, the whole hemisphere Columbus found when he landed in the Bahamas. Well, you should be a little more precise next time. People might get the wrong idea if you use the wrong words.
Tyler_JC wrote:
In fact, all policies of every country should be policies that benefit the nation creating the policy. Why would you want to have a policy that is harmful?
Granted, but since when was immigration per se harmful to the United States? If I remember my Schoolhouse Rock, it was actually kind of a big deal in the formulation and continuing upkeep of the land.
Tyler_JC wrote:
2. We take in refugees because we are an overly compassionate country.
No, I didn't mean refugees to YOUR country, but refugees to MINE. Like the guys in your army who don't want to be sent to someone else's country to kill them when they haven't done anything to the US in the first place. People like that.
Tyler_JC wrote:
That does not mean that we should take in MILLIONS of them. No matter how many we take in, there will always be more. If you accept the notion that resources are limited and the notion that a country has an obligation to its citizens...you must support at least some kind of restrictions on the number of refugees allowed to enter a country.
According to the UN, as of 2006/2007, there were 844,000 refugees in the US (hardly "millions"). There were 152,000 in Canada. Now given that you have nine times our population, why is five times the number of refugees a huge imposition? The number of refugees in the US represents about a quarter of one percent of your population. If that's a drain on your resources, you could just cede Detroit to Ontario and that would effectively eliminate the difference... _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
ORCA wrote:
Another dumb law that should be halted until repeal is allowing anyone from anywhere under any circumstances that squirts out an infant here, that baby is now an American citizen. What crap is
THAT?
Pray tell, from what does YOUR claim to citizenship spring from...? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4690 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:
1. I mean that the United States should adopt immigration policies that benefit the United States.
Oh, the United States, the country... not America, the whole hemisphere Columbus found when he landed in the Bahamas. Well, you should be a little more precise next time. People might get the wrong idea if you use the wrong words.
Tyler_JC wrote:
In fact, all policies of every country should be policies that benefit the nation creating the policy. Why would you want to have a policy that is harmful?
Granted, but since when was immigration per se harmful to the United States? If I remember my Schoolhouse Rock, it was actually kind of a big deal in the formulation and continuing upkeep of the land.
Tyler_JC wrote:
2. We take in refugees because we are an overly compassionate country.
No, I didn't mean refugees to YOUR country, but refugees to MINE. Like the guys in your army who don't want to be sent to someone else's country to kill them when they haven't done anything to the US in the first place. People like that.
Tyler_JC wrote:
That does not mean that we should take in MILLIONS of them. No matter how many we take in, there will always be more. If you accept the notion that resources are limited and the notion that a country has an obligation to its citizens...you must support at least some kind of restrictions on the number of refugees allowed to enter a country.
According to the UN, as of 2006/2007, there were 844,000 refugees in the US (hardly "millions"). There were 152,000 in Canada. Now given that you have nine times our population, why is five times the number of refugees a huge imposition? The number of refugees in the US represents about a quarter of one percent of your population. If that's a drain on your resources, you could just cede Detroit to Ontario and that would effectively eliminate the difference...
1. Stop being pedantic. Everyone knows what "American" means.
2. There are millions of economic refugees. I consider most illegal immigrants to be economic refugees. That means we're talking about roughly 10 million people, likely more. THAT is a drain on resources like water and housing.
As for Ayoob's point. I support the construction of more nursing schools. I was just picking a profession in which there is a major labor shortage. It takes a long time to train new nurses but in the mean time we can allow a few temporary workers to fill the gap for a few years. And when the visas expire, we send them home. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Tyler_JC wrote:
1. Stop being pedantic. Everyone knows what "American" means.
Yeah, except you guys.
Prime Minister of France yesterday in Quebec City (celebrating its 400th anniversary):
Quote:
"French has never been extinguished in America. It's been 40 years since a great voice, a historic voice - using a word that belongs to you - pulled it from 'hibernation' in the spirit of my fellow compatriots. A persevering effort of rapprochement has borne its fruits," Mr. Fillon said.
A citizen of the city, same news item:
Quote:
Jovial in his own personal demonstration against what he sees as federal interference in a Quebec moment, Mr. Bergeron said he believes the prominence of Ottawa in the 400th anniversary of his city speaks to a "sabotage operation" of some sort.
"What we're celebrating," he said, "is 400 years of French pride in this land of America."
Get over yourselves. There are dozens of countries in America, not just one. And the word, and the birthright to it, belongs every bit as much to us as to you.
Tyler_JC wrote:
2. There are millions of economic refugees.
The official name for such people is "immigrants", legal or otherwise. An immigrant is someone who chooses to leave home. A refugee is someone with no such choice left to make. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Dec 18, 2004 Posts: 4886 Location: One Mile From the Columbia River
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Tyler_JC wrote:
Nickel wrote:
Tyler_JC wrote:
1. I mean that the United States should adopt immigration policies that benefit the United States.
Oh, the United States, the country... not America, the whole hemisphere Columbus found when he landed in the Bahamas. Well, you should be a little more precise next time. People might get the wrong idea if you use the wrong words.
Tyler_JC wrote:
In fact, all policies of every country should be policies that benefit the nation creating the policy. Why would you want to have a policy that is harmful?
Granted, but since when was immigration per se harmful to the United States? If I remember my Schoolhouse Rock, it was actually kind of a big deal in the formulation and continuing upkeep of the land.
Tyler_JC wrote:
2. We take in refugees because we are an overly compassionate country.
No, I didn't mean refugees to YOUR country, but refugees to MINE. Like the guys in your army who don't want to be sent to someone else's country to kill them when they haven't done anything to the US in the first place. People like that.
Tyler_JC wrote:
That does not mean that we should take in MILLIONS of them. No matter how many we take in, there will always be more. If you accept the notion that resources are limited and the notion that a country has an obligation to its citizens...you must support at least some kind of restrictions on the number of refugees allowed to enter a country.
According to the UN, as of 2006/2007, there were 844,000 refugees in the US (hardly "millions"). There were 152,000 in Canada. Now given that you have nine times our population, why is five times the number of refugees a huge imposition? The number of refugees in the US represents about a quarter of one percent of your population. If that's a drain on your resources, you could just cede Detroit to Ontario and that would effectively eliminate the difference...
1. Stop being pedantic. Everyone knows what "American" means.
2. There are millions of economic refugees. I consider most illegal immigrants to be economic refugees. That means we're talking about roughly 10 million people, likely more. THAT is a drain on resources like water and housing.
As for Ayoob's point. I support the construction of more nursing schools. I was just picking a profession in which there is a major labor shortage. It takes a long time to train new nurses but in the mean time we can allow a few temporary workers to fill the gap for a few years. And when the visas expire, we send them home.
Mind if I pipe in? The class of people known as 'refugees' represents a relatively tiny percentage of those moving to the USA. The classification known as 'asylees' likewise represents a relatively small number. There are also non-immigrant workers of many kinds, including the famous and abused H1B's, and there are those who wait patiently in the queue, sometimes for more than a decade, and enter as Lawful Permanent Residents.
But the largest group of newcomers is a classification known as 'illegal alien'.
As Tyler astutely pointed out, 99.9% of asylees and refugees are seeking entry into the USA, Canada, Europe, and Australia for economic reason regardless of the lies they tell the DOS and HS. I'll also point out nearly ALL 'illegals' enter for economic reasons.
Interestingly, and as an aside, many countries do not allow asylees or refugees to apply for entry. They are quite choosey about who they allow in. They know full well why people apply for this status: It's a great big scam and they've wisely decided not to participate. Maybe the predominately Caucasian countries could learn something from them. _________________ Got Dharma?
Joined: Sep 25, 2004 Posts: 4690 Location: Boston, MA
Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
There is no other word for a citizen of the United States but "American".
The people of Canada are Canadian. The people of Mexico are Mexican. The people of the USA (United States of America) are American.
If you can come up with a better descriptive term for citizens of the USA, be my guest. _________________ "www.peakoil.com is the Myspace of the Apocalypse."
Joined: Jul 04, 2008 Posts: 233 Location: Europe: European Historian
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:54 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Doesn't matter..
The government in power in the USA is doing nothing and will continue to do nothing as around 50 more million people will flood in over the next 10 years..'most via the Mexico" as that nation goes into chaos.
Americans are going to face the cliff event of The long Emergency with over 350 million people with a demographic situation as such
1933- America had a vast resorce of oil-gas coal
150 million people
90% European
10% Non White "mainly Africans"
30% Americans unemployed.
50% in poverty
2018- My date of the serve cliff event- USA will have 350 million people
Depleting oil-gas-but still with a decent coal reserve
50% European
15% African decent
28% Mexican
5% Muslim
3% Asian
Doesn't take much thought to see what the future holds in the states
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Old Dominion
Posted: Sat Jul 05, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
ORCA wrote:
Another dumb law that should be halted until repeal is allowing anyone from anywhere under any circumstances that squirts out an infant here, that baby is now an American citizen. What crap is
THAT?
Pray tell, from what does YOUR claim to citizenship spring from...?
HOnest question, and I will answer it in a moment. First, however, I would like to explain exactly how this current citizenship loophole originated.
It was during the "Coldwar". It was a means for the U.S. to poke a finger in the eye of the Soviets by allowing citizenship to the offspring of Soviet dissitents if those offspring were born here in the U.S. With the child now a citizen, it gave the U.S. more latitude in providing support to the dissitent because of the citizenship issue.
Now, pregnant illegals sneak across our southern border to give birth to a freshly minted U.S. citizen as a means of securing a legal foothold in a country where they have no right to be. Its time for the law to be repealed!
My family have been in this country legally since before there was a United States of America. How about you? _________________ "If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Tyler_JC wrote:
There is no other word for a citizen of the United States but "American".
That's YOUR problem, not mine. I'm every bit as much an American as you, and I don't concede the birthright just because your Founding Fathers were spectacularly unimaginative in naming your country "the adjective collective-nouns of hemisphere" and their descendants are arrogant enough to assume the rest of us ought to just bow to it.
Tyler_JC wrote:
If you can come up with a better descriptive term for citizens of the USA, be my guest.
Politeness prevents me from offering any. Joking aside, that's your job, not mine. _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 4402 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
ORCA wrote:
My family have been in this country legally since before there was a United States of America. How about you?
Queue the usual 'but native american's were here first' rationalization for unchecked immigration. _________________ As long as I am around, there are no worries we have reached "Peak Words"
Joined: Jun 26, 2007 Posts: 1461 Location: The Canada of America
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
mos6507 wrote:
ORCA wrote:
My family have been in this country legally since before there was a United States of America. How about you?
Queue the usual 'but native american's were here first' rationalization for unchecked immigration.
So what's the rationalization for the unchecked immigration into what we used to call Palestine in the last seventy or eighty years? _________________ I can has cheezburger?
Joined: May 28, 2008 Posts: 109 Location: Old Dominion
Posted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Any Americans still pro-immigration?
Nickel wrote:
ORCA wrote:
My family have been in this country legally since
before there was a United States of America.
Define "legally". Someone pregnant creeping off a boat onto land that belonged to the Lenope?
The Lenope had no concept of land "ownership", nor did the other tribal peoples whose ancestors themselves immigrated here. They didn't "own" the land any more than anyone else, including those having all the answers and living in Canada. Besides, Kinnewick Man whose intact skeleten was found in Washington state and dated to over 10,000 years old was decidedly Caucasian in features, not Mongaloid. So, exactly WHO was here first? _________________ "If everything is going well, you obviously overlooked something."
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Joking aside, that's your job, not mine.
