Joined: Nov 16, 2007 Posts: 291 Location: Rural Western Idaho
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
hope_full wrote:
This is a serious question. I consider myself to be quite the optimist in every way and yet I hear folks on these forums using the word "doomers" to describe themselves.
I'm not a doomer. In fact, I'm one of the most optimistic people I know, but as a student of history, the most optimistic bend I can put on this Peak Oil problem is that we'll have a soft landing.
I've done a lot of reading on the topic and I don't know how any well-read, independent thinker can think that we're not going to run out of oil - at some point in the not-so-terribly distant future.
So, am I the only starry-eyed optimist here? Generally speaking, do your friends tell you you're an optimist or a pessimist? Or maybe you're an optimist on everything *but* peak oil???
HF
Hi, HF -
As you can see from the date by my name, I haven't been on the PO boards very long compared to many people here. One of the first things I posted was about the long running "nun study" (you can google search that from the column on the left and come up with my post) which concludes that people with positive outlooks live longer.
Boy did I get zinged big time on that thread!
No matter, I still believe that looking at things from a positive point of view (not ostrich head in the sand, though) is the most productive approach.
Having said that, it took me a while to realize that I am, in fact, a doomer. Being a doomer does not mean that one is negative (necessarily). It means that I believe that, because of peak oil and its fall out -- rising food costs, etc -- we are, in fact, "doomed" to the future that is coming at us like a speeding freight train.
In spite of the fact that I believe that the end of the world as we know it (TEOWAWKI) is on its way -- sooner than most people on these boards think -- I see it as a positive thing.
Yes, many will suffer and many will die. I am not rejoicing in that. But I am rejoicing in the fact that we are being given no choice but to re-learn hard work, the value of taking care of and working the soil, the coming together of "clans" (whether that be blood families, or by some other definition) to the mutual support of all in the clan/tribe. I am rejoicing that we are having to go back to a time in which our little childrens' self-esteem was not a question that we grappled with -- because, being integral to the work of keeping the family going (by collecting the eggs, etc), they automatically recognized their worth.
I could go on for a long time here ... but bottom line. I am an optimist who is also a doomer. I hope this makes some sense to you. If not -- please let me know, and I will try to explain more clearly.
Glad you have joined us here.
Lumpy _________________ Dean Karnazes : "Run when you can, walk when you have to, crawl if you must; just never give up." --- Jackie Joyner-Kersee: "It is better to look forward & prepare, than to look back & regret."
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
Tell that to the single Mom just maken ends meet right now. What in God's Earth do they have to be optimistic about? For those with "means" being optimist is a heck of a lot easier, huh.
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
biofuel13 wrote:
Ludi wrote:
I'm a happy doomer!
+1
See my sig _________________ "Don't ever become a pessimist... a pessimist is correct oftener than an optimist, but an optimist has more fun, and neither can stop the march of events."
Robert A. Heinlein
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
Quote:
Tell that to the single Mom just maken ends meet right now. What in God's Earth do they have to be optimistic about? For those with "means" being optimist is a heck of a lot easier, huh.
I think "single moms" will become a thing of the past. Riasing children alone is way, way too hard a thing to do on one's own and I think single parenthood is an anomaly of nature and by no means, "normal."
My husband's mother was a single mom in the appalachian hills in the 1950s. Can you imagine a more difficult circumstance in America? But she lived near family and family helped provide some support. When her dollars ran out, a family member became a "boarder" providing some financial support and the family member also took care of cleaning, cooking and kids.
If I were a single mom NOW and if I had no money (and I have had both experiences in my life), I would make arrangements toDAY to relocate near loved ones or family members or near someone who could help me.
After my divorce, I lived as a boarder in someone's home (not once, but twice) and I liked it. In both cases, I became very close with the homeowner and it felt very natural and good and a whole lot less lonely. And I was able to get out of debt at that point.
Single motherhood is a creation of 20th Century and 21st Century screwed-up lifestyles. In the 19th Century, single women with children moved in with family members (which explains why old houses have so many doors - compartmentalization).
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 4330 Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
In the past, the extended family all lived in the same community and would help each other. This happened to my Dad as his Mom died from TB at 23 years or age. Everything has changed now. Many kids only VIST parents a couple time a year now. The family has broken down.
Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
Quote:
Many kids only VIST parents a couple time a year now. The family has broken down.
I agree 100%.
In 1951, my parents moved 3,000 miles away from their parents, siblings, cousins, and friends (for an employment opportunity). I never laid eyes on my maternal grandparents and only spent 10 days during my lifetime with my paternal grandparents. Ditto that for the rest of the extended family.
When my kids were little, I saw what a rich and precious relationship they had with my mother and hubby's parents and it was amazing. I missed a lot growing up without any extended family.
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:20 pm Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
hope_full wrote:
This is a serious question. I consider myself to be quite the optimist in every way and yet I hear folks on these forums using the word "doomers" to describe themselves.
I'm not a doomer. In fact, I'm one of the most optimistic people I know, but as a student of history, the most optimistic bend I can put on this Peak Oil problem is that we'll have a soft landing.
I've done a lot of reading on the topic and I don't know how any well-read, independent thinker can think that we're not going to run out of oil - at some point in the not-so-terribly distant future.
So, am I the only starry-eyed optimist here? Generally speaking, do your friends tell you you're an optimist or a pessimist? Or maybe you're an optimist on everything *but* peak oil???
HF
I agree about the thinking/reading people.
To tell the truth, I vacillate between the two. I feel very strongly that oil is not going to be a major player in the future. I think the idea that "some magical techno-fairy will fix it" is naive....
But, I don't know if I'm really able to believe that the world will turn into some weird cross between The Road and Mad Max LOL.
I also deeply distrust Kunstler--he irks me. I have no idea why, and perhaps it is unfair, but it's true.
If people get off their asses en masse I thinks may be better than we imagined. It's just the size of the average American ass that scares me.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3638 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
hope_full wrote:
I think "single moms" will become a thing of the past. Riasing children alone is way, way too hard a thing to do on one's own and I think single parenthood is an anomaly of nature and by no means, "normal."
What happens to single parents of today like me, then? I've pretty much given up the idea of a love life right now and am rejoining my mom and dad but it may not last long if I can't make them PO aware. What happens after that I don't know. I can say I'd like to be part of a PO aware community even if it's just my own family since there is strength in numbers. _________________ Peak oil is sort of like a mental Everlasting Gobstopper, except it tastes like ass and you can't get it out of your mouth.
Joined: Aug 03, 2007 Posts: 3638 Location: Boston Suburbs
Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
charliebrownout wrote:
I also deeply distrust Kunstler--he irks me. I have no idea why, and perhaps it is unfair, but it's true.
Heinberg is the only figure I trust, because I think he's connected all the dots and he walks the walk. He has the suburban homestead and everything. _________________ Peak oil is sort of like a mental Everlasting Gobstopper, except it tastes like ass and you can't get it out of your mouth.
Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:28 am Post subject: Re: Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
Are you an optimist or a pessimist?
What about adding another catagory, such as realist?
Seems to me the optimist, is the kind of individual who believes that nothing bad is going to happen at least not to them. Individuals I'd place in this catageory would be all the suckers who thought there was nothing wrong with subprime loans, and that subprime loans were a way to get rich! Another example of an optimist is president bush and the rest of the political idiots who thought and tries to sell the US public that going to war in Iraq was going to be a cake walk and that US armed forces would be trated as liberators (and not understand that the politics of the middle east is pretty damn complex and is an out growth of thousands of years of tribal skirmishes).
The pessimist, IMHO is the kind of individual who gets their jollys from prepairing for doom and gloom. Continuing with my broad brush strokes of using President bush as an example of an optimist, I'll use Bin Laden and other religious wack jobs of a similar ilk that see no hope in this life or this world and cling to the belief that by dying or being a martyr they will find paradise in the afterlife...
Personally I'm a realist, and understand that crap does happen, but that its possible to avoid making the problem worst or even profit from random crap happening by being prepaired (which if ya didn't know is the old boy scout motto). _________________ "I'm 100% sure that unsustainable conspicuous consumption of natural basic resources will eventually lead to a proverbial hell on earth for those people who get stuck with the mismanagement mess of mankind not being stewards of the environment!"
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